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Just another 505 build

Here's the photos of the short block. Springs were installed @ 1.940. Plenty of room for max lift, measured when I had the mock up springs in there. I talked to Trick Flow today, they want all the photos n all that from everything, then they were going to take my heads back to their shop for disassembly. Also I am not here to badmouth Trick Flow, just documenting my build.

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Schober Motorsports said:
Hey guys... Had some bad luck this weekend. Went for my first pass in the car and right as I'm coming out of the burnout box the motor locks up. Took it apart the same night and this is what happened... I have no marks on any other pistons other than #3 and #7 where the seats actually came apart and out of the head... The passenger side head has 3 cylinders with material missing from the spark plug hole area... Any ideas on what may of happened? I had .100+ clearance from the piston to valve when I checked it. What a mess.

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Sorry to see & hear that,
That sucks *** for damn sure...

I hope Trickflow makes it good...
Could be just bad/inferior parts, a fluke or bad choice on their part...
Could have been just a keeper let go, it could be a lot of ****...

That's gonna be expensive fix...

I fell bad for ya' barely did a burnout & boom...
I'd be pissed as hell, it's good you're keeping a level head...
I hope all works out well for ya'

I've seen a few Stealth heads valve breaks/bends,
that that happened on too...
 
First off, I'm sorry about your bad luck. I feel sick when I see something like this.

However, in a race car, if you use a cylinder head OOTB, YOU screwed up.

Why I bother to post I have no idea! I have reported on this before, DOUBLE CHECK EVERYTHING!

Trick Flow makes an excellent head and they make the valve to guide clearance TOO DAMN TIGHT FOR A RACE ENGINE! You are supposed to check these things. I have reported before that I have had to open up the guide clearance on every big block Chrysler head I have ever received from Trick Flow.

Maybe Trick Flow made a mistake on these heads, but I doubt it. My guess is, they were not properly prepared, before use, by the end user.

I don't know, maybe I'm just in a bad mood this morning. Sorry.
 
Schober Motorsports said:
Hey guys... Had some bad luck this weekend. Went for my first pass in the car and right as I'm coming out of the burnout box the motor locks up. Took it apart the same night and this is what happened... I have no marks on any other pistons other than #3 and #7 where the seats actually came apart and out of the head... The passenger side head has 3 cylinders with material missing from the spark plug hole area... Any ideas on what may of happened? I had .100+ clearance from the piston to valve when I checked it. What a mess.

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This one cylinder has the valve jammed partially open, Either bent or a guide issue? Will be interesting to hear what you hear back.
 
I remember working at a speed shop back just out of high school and they did some sprint car heads for a guy. Same issue made the guides to tight and it seized a valve and the same result.

I'm glad you checked my heads Jim!
 
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Trick Flow is sending me some boxes with UPS labels to ship them back. So far all I see is 3 bent valves 4/6/8 on side and 3/5 on the other... What I think happened is that valve seat came apart or the valve broke on #3 and sent valve seat pieces all thoughout the motor. I found pieces of valve seat wedged into #8 and in 4/5/6. 1/2 and 7 are not bent.
 
I understand a valve binding up on too tight of a guide but how does that cause the seat to come out? not nit-picking or trying to cause any crap; just educate me or all of us.
 
I feel your pain, I'm sorry this happened to you. I had a similar situation last month but not as catastrophic. My heads were also used out of the box but I built more of a street engine. It turns out that a retainer failed on mine but I had 13000 miles so it took a while. It sucks yours failed right out of the gate so to speak. These head builders have to source their parts somewhere and rely on their suppliers. We also rely on their expertise for a quality product. AT least they are going to investigate what happened to hopefully make improvements where needed. I hope it works out for the best, good luck!
 
lewtot184 said:
I understand a valve binding up on too tight of a guide but how does that cause the seat to come out? not nit-picking or trying to cause any crap; just educate me or all of us.
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Saw an engine once where the exhaust valve bent, then broke. When the engine shut off and they removed the headers, you could look up in the exhaust port, through the block, into the lifter valley and see the camshaft.

If the valve bent in an aluminum head it could come down sideways and cut the valve seat right out of the head. I refer you to page 8 and the picture of the sideways valve head in the port.
 
Might be a dumb question, but how did you check piston to valve clearance? Tightest piston to valve isn't at max lift. Just ask'n. High RPM burnout could toss the lifter/rocker off the cam lobe & the valve into the piston. A possibility. Tight guide is a possibility.
 
IQ52 said:
Saw an engine once where the exhaust valve bent, then broke. When the engine shut off and they removed the headers, you could look up in the exhaust port, through the block, into the lifter valley and see the camshaft.

If the valve bent in an aluminum head it could come down sideways and cut the valve seat right out of the head. I refer you to page 8 and the picture of the sideways valve head in the port.
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thanks. my first thoughts were valve float in the water box, a lot of piston to valve contact and the seats beat out from valve bouncing on them. I sure hate to see this stuff; big dollars to fix.
 
I have a 6800 top end chip in my MSD 3 step...with the main purpose of NOT over revving it coming out of the water box. It works out OK because I go thru the lights right AT 6800 which is 131.5 mph with my 4.30 gear and 29", 92" rollout Hoosiers.

I have a Mopar friend who bent 3 pushrods coming out of the box when the motor went to 7600 and he did NOT have a top end chip in his msd box. Valve springs were only rated to about 7100.
 
66Satellite47 said:
Might be a dumb question, but how did you check piston to valve clearance? Tightest piston to valve isn't at max lift. Just ask'n. High RPM burnout could toss the lifter/rocker off the cam lobe & the valve into the piston. A possibility. Tight guide is a possibility.
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I put my checker springs on cylinder 1 intake and exhaust, put some playdoh on the piston with some light oil so it doesn't stick and put the head on with the gasket. I just hand tighten it enough so its flat on there. Turn the engine over twice and take off the head and cut the prints out of the piston with a putty knife and measure with a dial caliper or micrometer. A bit hard to do with the playdoh, but as long as I don't make an imprint in the playdoh I can get a measurement. When I did this I was at .100+ for the intake and exhaust. Keep in mind guys, I do not have any marks from the valves on my pistons!

Mike, I have a burnout chip set to 4000 rpm and a rev limiter to 6800. I was at about 5500 when I was coming out of the box. Springs were matched to the cam as well.

What I think happened here is I just broke a valve. That valve broke, and split the seat in a ton of pieces and set them all thoughout while the valve got smashed into the port. Those seat pieces went all thoughout the motor and raised hell on those other valves. I found multiple pieces stuck in other valve seats that kept the valves open, ultimately bending them... Maybe my prediction seems crazy, but from what I can see I think that is what happened.

Trick Flow is standing by their product and is working with me to get a solution on this issue. Honestly I am very happy so far that they are working with me on a solution instead of telling me to just hit the road... So more to come. You guys ain't hurting my feelings a bit with all this tough love, I'm only 24 and for someone to say that they know it all is just foolish! I'm here to learn as well so this kinda stuff doesn't happen again!
 
Good to hear they’re working with you on the issue, Definitely keep us updated.
 
Schober Motorsports said:
I put my checker springs on cylinder 1 intake and exhaust, put some playdoh on the piston with some light oil so it doesn't stick and put the head on with the gasket. I just hand tighten it enough so its flat on there. Turn the engine over twice and take off the head and cut the prints out of the piston with a putty knife and measure with a dial caliper or micrometer. A bit hard to do with the playdoh, but as long as I don't make an imprint in the playdoh I can get a measurement. When I did this I was at .100+ for the intake and exhaust. Keep in mind guys, I do not have any marks from the valves on my pistons!

Mike, I have a burnout chip set to 4000 rpm and a rev limiter to 6800. I was at about 5500 when I was coming out of the box. Springs were matched to the cam as well.

What I think happened here is I just broke a valve. That valve broke, and split the seat in a ton of pieces and set them all thoughout while the valve got smashed into the port. Those seat pieces went all thoughout the motor and raised hell on those other valves. I found multiple pieces stuck in other valve seats that kept the valves open, ultimately bending them... Maybe my prediction seems crazy, but from what I can see I think that is what happened.

Trick Flow is standing by their product and is working with me to get a solution on this issue. Honestly I am very happy so far that they are working with me on a solution instead of telling me to just hit the road... So more to come. You guys ain't hurting my feelings a bit with all this tough love, I'm only 24 and for someone to say that they know it all is just foolish! I'm here to learn as well so this kinda stuff doesn't happen again!
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sounds like your on it, and things will work out for the best.
 
66Satellite47 said:
Might be a dumb question, but how did you check piston to valve clearance? Tightest piston to valve isn't at max lift. Just ask'n. High RPM burnout could toss the lifter/rocker off the cam lobe & the valve into the piston. A possibility. Tight guide is a possibility.
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wondering this also; did he go full rotation when checking pis. to valve clearance.
 
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