Just ordered a Borgeson power steering box

[furyus]

Why did you end up using his pump?

I kept getting that GM power steering hiss, when turned fully left, or right. His pump puts out more pressure. It is a little noisy. You can hear a slight pump sound through the steering column. I wondered if I should try the stock pump with the larger hose, and fitting, I just haven't done it. Also, some type of isolating joint in the column would be a help. Mopar style coupler is metal to metal.

 

[65RoadRacer]

I kept getting that GM power steering hiss, when turned fully left, or right. His pump puts out more pressure. It is a little noisy. You can hear a slight pump sound through the steering column. I wondered if I should try the stock pump with the larger hose, and fitting, I just haven't done it. Also, some type of isolating joint in the column would be a help. Mopar style coupler is metal to metal.

The coupler that Borgeson supplies for their steering box (universal joint) isn't metal to metal, there's a vulcanized rubber insulator between the two pieces that allows some flexibility, but it's still firm.

 

[furyus]

The coupler that Borgeson supplies for their steering box (universal joint) isn't metal to metal, there's a vulcanized rubber insulator between the two pieces that allows some flexibility, but it's still firm.

I'm thinking of going to that coupler when I get some time. Too many cars. Too little time.

 

[RobP]

It's installed. I also used the Bergman coupler so I wouldn't need to cut the steering shaft, plus mine was in rough shape. My shop ended up using the newer style clamp on the coupler. They did need to file the inside of the coupler a little bit as it was powder coated on the inside too and the shoes didn't fit very well as is. No big deal.
I was able to take it out for a very quick spin (rain spoiled it). I'm VERY HAPPY with the feel! No more huge dead spot and the steering is extremely responsive. Very little input is needed to turn the wheel. It steers like a completely different car. It's heavier for sure, but it's the steering response that's made the biggest difference. The shop has since removed the washers that I'd installed in the pump to firm it up before I did this, so I haven't driven it since they removed them. I'm thinking it might make it a little less firm, but I'll find out tomorrow.
I'll update my impressions once I get a chance to put a few more miles on it.

 

[Pontus]

hello
i really need a new steering box for my 70 gtx.
what more do i need for complete install? new pitman arm? i have check the borgeson kit from bergman auto.
i have the oem pump do i need to switch?

// need advice

 

[5.7 hemi]

Pitman arm you have will work fine. Bergman has the hoses, call and he will help you out.

 

[Pontus]

will the pump work or do i need another pump?

 

[5.7 hemi]

IF you have the Saginaw pump, it’ll be just fine.

 

[Pontus]

thank you very much
is it worth try do rebuild the original box with a new seal kit or should i just go for a new borgeson?

 

[5.7 hemi]

The factory boxes don’t give any feedback, they were meant for old lady’s. They are also a slow ratio, new box is 14:1, way better. It really depends on what you and your wallet are comfortable with. Sending it out to Firm Feel for a stage 1,2 or 3 rebuild or a new box that is smaller, lighter and more modern?

 

[65RoadRacer]

I have the Thompson pump, it worked just fine. No need to switch pumps, but if you need a pump, Borgeson also has them brand new. Talk to Jeff there and tell him what you need and he can help you out with everything.

 

[CoronetDarter]

I know the Borgenson is the real deal. But i have a Firm Feel Stage III in the Coronet (along with stiffer T-bars, rebuilt suspension, etc.) and my car handles as good as my wife's late model Fusion (insert Ford pun here _____).

 

[65RoadRacer]

I know the Borgenson is the real deal. But i have a Firm Feel Stage III in the Coronet (along with stiffer T-bars, rebuilt suspension, etc.) and my car handles as good as my wife's late model Fusion (insert Ford pun here _____).

Not that Firm Feel isn't worthy, it's just that they are still rebuilding 60 year old power valves. So much has changed over the years and the Borgeson is a brand new, modern steering box resplined to fit the Mopars. The unit is about 13 pounds lighter, and considerably smaller. So personally I don't feel the two are comparable with regards to a side-by-side analysis. I've driven cars that had both, and as I stated, Firm Feel is great for what it is. But the Borgeson is not a rebuild... it's not a revalved... it's brand new with today's technology. Just my two "sense"...

 

[Kern Dog]

The factory boxes don’t give any feedback, they were meant for old lady’s. They are also a slow ratio, new box is 14:1, way better. It really depends on what you and your wallet are comfortable with. Sending it out to Firm Feel for a stage 1,2 or 3 rebuild or a new box that is smaller, lighter and more modern?

Slow ratio? The power steering was slightly faster than the 16-1 manual steering setup!
Stock P/S was 15.7 to 1. Add the fast ratio Pitman and idler arms and that closes it to around 12 to 1. A Rebuild by Firm Feel , Stage 3 with fast ratio arms is a good setup for about half the price.

 

[65RoadRacer]

Slow ratio? The power steering was slightly faster than the 16-1 manual steering setup!
Stock P/S was 15.7 to 1. Add the fast ratio Pitman and idler arms and that closes it to around 12 to 1. A Rebuild by Firm Feel , Stage 3 with fast ratio arms is a good setup for about half the price.

I checked out the FF site... with what you mentioned the two are roughly the same cost, so am I missing something when you say about half the price? The box itself is about $230 less, but when you add the arms it increases by $285.

Firm Feel PSB3 Kit: about $909:
Stage III box: $399 (plus $250 core charge)
Steering Pot: $35
Powder Coat: $125
Hose Kit: $65
Fast Pitman: $195
Fast Idler: $90
Borgeson kit comes out to about $834
New Box: $629
Hose Kit: $75
Coupler: $130
And you use your stock arms.

 

[5.7 hemi]

Oops, I meant slow as compared to a modern (Bergman or Firm Feel) box.

 

[Kern Dog]

Stage III box: $399 (plus $250 core charge)
Steering Pot: $35
Powder Coat: $125
Hose Kit: $65
Fast Pitman: $195
Fast Idler: $90

Who does NOT have a core to send?
Who gets a new steering coupler?
Who powder coats the case?
Who doesn't already have hoses?
I am not against the Borgeson but you padded the total with stuff that not everyone needs.

 

[65RoadRacer]

Stage III box: $399 (plus $250 core charge)
Steering Pot: $35
Powder Coat: $125
Hose Kit: $65
Fast Pitman: $195
Fast Idler: $90

Who does NOT have a core to send?
Who gets a new steering coupler?
Who powder coats the case?
Who doesn't already have hoses?
I am not against the Borgeson but you padded the total with stuff that not everyone needs.

Fair enough...
I didn't add the core charge in, that's $250 that is a wash on the $909 - if you didn't have a core that's rebuildable, that would be added, not subtracted.

• I would install a new steering coupler with a new box unless I already had one.
• The Borgeson box is coated
• I would install new hoses on a new box unless I just installed them.
• That's not "padding" anything, I'm adding in the items I would be getting if I was replacing a steering box.

But let's talk pricing:
$399 for the box plus $285 for the arms you mention is $684 for FF vs. $834 for Borgeson (coupler and hoses added in). The difference is $150 - it's not half the price of the Borgeson which includes the new coupler and new hoses.

I'd pay an extra $150 for a brand new, lighter, smaller, steering box if I was already spending $684 .

 

[Kern Dog]

The prices that I have heard for the Borgeson have been in the $940 range.
I was not aware that the Firm Feel unit was $400 now. The price of the F/R arms have went up as well.
I paid $300 for my Stage 3 and just under $200 for the F/R arms. THis was awhile ago though so these recent numbers do make sense.
Now I feel like the old timer that tips the waitress a quarter and wonders why he gets shitty service the next time!

 

[65RoadRacer]

The prices that I have heard for the Borgeson have been in the $940 range.
I was not aware that the Firm Feel unit was $400 now. The price of the F/R arms have went up as well.
I paid $300 for my Stage 3 and just under $200 for the F/R arms. THis was awhile ago though so these recent numbers do make sense.
Now I feel like the old timer that tips the waitress a quarter and wonders why he gets shitty service the next time!

LOL! I thought you were using that 'new math' that has everyone confused.

Jeff at Borgeson said he was getting a lot of flack on the pricing, the old box was in the $780 range, he heard the Mopar crowd and found a new box that was less costly and subsequently lowered the price about $150. I had the original, and have installed the newer one about four times now... they were close in size, so the new one isn't really much smaller/lighter than the original, but it's a solid replacement. With 14:1 ratio that Borgeson offers, I can tell you from experience that autocross or road racing the box performed well and I was happy with it. I hated the old one-finger feel, plus the rebuilt unit I bought was crap (not FFs).

Incidentally, Mopar is the only PS steering box Borgeson sells that is smaller and lighter than the original... so the Ford and Bowtie crowd get the same heavy box they started with.

Here... on me.... lol