- Local time
- 10:16 PM
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 35,086
- Reaction score
- 57,527
- Location
- South Louisiana
Web search!
Kratom as a pain reliever and a safe pathway to reduce/eliminate opiate use
- Thread starter biomedtechguy
- Start date
- Local time
- 8:16 PM
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2011
- Messages
- 74,013
- Reaction score
- 112,959
- Location
- NorCal Sierras
- Local time
- 10:16 PM
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 35,086
- Reaction score
- 57,527
- Location
- South Louisiana
It's been a long, long time since I posted here.
I'm only going to add that I know 100% that concentrated alkaloids derived from kratom that are offered OTC are amazingly effective in pain management and preventing withdrawal symptoms for those who are dependent on opioids.
Here are a few that I can report worked, going from Rx dependency to zero Rx intake, only having these kratom concentrates in their place:
Although the blue labeled packs likely are effective, the red labeled products are the ones I know about:
Hydroxie - Pure 7-Hydroxy
Also
7OHMZ and MOJO7OHMS
I'm only going to add that I know 100% that concentrated alkaloids derived from kratom that are offered OTC are amazingly effective in pain management and preventing withdrawal symptoms for those who are dependent on opioids.
Here are a few that I can report worked, going from Rx dependency to zero Rx intake, only having these kratom concentrates in their place:
Although the blue labeled packs likely are effective, the red labeled products are the ones I know about:
Hydroxie - Pure 7-Hydroxy
Also
7OHMZ and MOJO7OHMS
- Local time
- 10:16 PM
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 35,086
- Reaction score
- 57,527
- Location
- South Louisiana
I have another update on the topic of (concentrated) Kratom alkaloids and the perceived, chemical, and physiological differences between "7-hydroxymitragynine" versus
"pseudoindoxyl" with a brief mention of the predecessor to these 2 far more effective products.
I am NOT a medical doctor nor have any training in that field, and I will state as is also stated on the packaging of these products that anyone should consult a healthcare professional BEFORE consuming ANY of these products, along with other cautions, caveats, and warnings. JMO/YRMV.
This evaluation is primarily focused on their use as pain relievers and to prevent withdrawals in those who are or have been in long term pain management with opioid use.
I'm sure they're effective to combat negative effects of short-term opioid use, and the higher the Rx opioid dose(s) used or prescribed, the greater the benefits of getting away from Rx opioids to prevent long term dependence. The Kratom products are effective in tapering down to the point of eliminating the use of either Rx opioids and the Kratom alkaloids, because the body will develop dependence with either or both of these products.
Originally "concentrated" Kratom mitraginine capsules like OPMS Gold were of interest as they were a low volume/high yield product to get the desired results in this application, BUT they were still lacking the ability to reliably achieve the desired results which are primarily preventing physical and to a much lesser degree psychological withdrawals. While better than nothing, the side effects (an uneasy, "speedy" effect) and the minimal effectiveness really reduced them to a "break glass only in emergency" option. By "low volume/high yield" I am referring to the higher potency of the OPMS Gold capsule contents vs the more widespread capsules or powders that require a MUCH higher volume ingestion to get enough of the chemicals that are effective, but barely effective as stated regarding their relative lack of desired effect).
Now, on to what has been a literal blessing from God, especially compared to going cold turkey which results in brutal withdrawals and a perceived higher level of pain(s) than the pain(s) that were so intense as to indicate the use of opioids to prevent or address it in the first place.
Pseudoindoxyl has undoubtedly been the most effective mitraginine alkaloid for use in the treatment and prevention of debilitating pain and prevention of withdrawal symptoms. This derivative also seems to focus on the physiology of pain relief versus some of the other effects that some users of Kratom, especially "recreational users" may be looking to experience.
From several articles I've read, pseudoindoxyl is a metabolite of 7-hydroxymitragynine, so common sense, historical comparison (and likely lab results) along with experience means that IF the effects of pseudoindoxyl is what someone is desiring to achieve, it is better to start out with that Kratom alkaloid (pseudoindoxyl) vs using
"7-hydroxymitragynine" and having it be converted into pseudoindoxyl in the body. This pseudoindoxyl is not only more effective to relieve pain and prevent withdrawals, but it also means there are FAR fewer chances of having undesired side-effects, some that can be so uncomfortable or even potentially harmful or dangerous as to make the use of some "7-hydroxymitragynine" products a No-Go, non-option.
After having good results with the MOJO7OHMS product, it was noticed that a "batch" of that product that seemed to be much fresher, better kept in transit, maybe even created by an improved manufacturing system wound up causing much stronger side-effects in ways that were NOT the intended benefit of pain management, and had very speedy effects, even difficult to describe "angina" effects, like when you drink coffee or other caffeine containing substance in excess.
In the middle of the
"7-hydroxymitragynine" versus pseudoindoxyl products available, there is a product that splits the alkaloids 50/50, and since the pseudoindoxyl is best for pain management, I would suggest that if 100% pseudoindoxyl is not available, the 50/50 split is better than the straight
"7-hydroxymitragynine" product.
Last note: Many of these tablets may have a similar appearance, but some have higher concentration of the desired alkaloids in a physically similar or even smaller tablet, so it's imperative to read what each TABLET contains, and also each SERVING. For example, when 100% pseudoindoxyl tablets were desired but not available, the next best choice would typically be a 50/50 tablet, and each tablet had 10mg of each alkaloid (7-hydroxymitragynine AND 10mg of pseudoindoxyl). They can be had for as little as $5/tablet, pack of 4 for $20. Doing the math on a few common packages and their effectiveness and cost/value:
**ABSOLUTE BEST for pain relief and effectiveness per dollar:
Hydroxie brand pseudoindoxyl (RED packaging) 10 tablets per pack, 15mg per tablet, $50/pack of 10=$5 each tablet:
The above product was the first concentrated Kratom alkaloid tablet introduced to my knowledge base and it is reported to be so effective as to be considered by MANY as a literal Gift from God. Effective Pain relief at a level basically identical to, possibly superior to common but high strength Rx opioids. Beneficial effects last appx 4-6 hours per tablet (again YRMV) each tablet is "2 servings".
NOTE: Hydroxie offers a single tablet ("2 servings") pack as a FREE SAMPLE! They are the ONLY ones who do this as far as I know, so if anyone wants to try this kind of product, it's a great opportunity.
Here's the link to their free sample page. The 7-hydroxymitragynine (BLUE) 1-tablet pack is also available as a free sample, but I "think" you can only choose one or the other.
Samples
**This next one is the 50/50 product. 10mg of each of the 2 alkaloids, 20mg combined per tablet. Very effective and "tied for 2nd place" with a different 100% 7-hydroxymitragynine only product that will follow this one. Also $5 per tablet:
**This next product is so similar in effect to the above shown 50/50 alk mix 20mg tabs as to be considered "tied for 2nd place". I think part of the reason is these tablets are 30mg EACH so about 50% to 100% more concentrated than most of the other offerings in this kind of product, even though it only has the 7-hydroxymitragynine alkaloid in it.
5 pack of 30mg tablets for $30=$6/Tablet BUT only $3 per 15mg and very effective = very good value.
Unlike the MOJO7OHMS product, I haven't seen any reports on these causing angina or over caffeinated feelings:
**Last in this list is the 4 pack of 15mg 100% 7-hydroxymitragynine tablets by the same company that makes the 50/50 tablets shown 2nd. While not as effective as the 50/50 tabs, these are effective without undesired side-effects. $20 pack of 4=$5 per tablet:
There's too many people having problems with opioids in the United States today, but for the uninformed, unaffected, or uninterested, they may not know that opium use and addiction is a centuries and even millennia old story (literally a topic or background in many famous stories, and affected Edgar Allen Poe severely). Opioid addiction in the last 20-30 years or so has been exposed to the public through special presentations and movies, and in the media (both propagandist leftist and independent digital media) but has really made headlines in the last few years because of border policies and the FLOOD of fentanyl crossing our borders. Fake Rx pills, usually imitation opioids but fentanyl is also showing up in totally unrelated drugs and places, and I pray fentanyl will never be successfully used as part of a mass-scale terror attack.
In their pathetic and typically COUNTERPRODUCTIVE ways, the DEA and FDA, doctors who let "fear" rule their treatment protocols instead of what is best for the patient, FEAR in place of the Hippocratic Oath, they and others have taken a bad situation they are largely responsible for, or at least inarguably responsible for making FAR FAR WORSE than it was, and they are making the legal, legitimate, and necessary availability of Rx opioids to patients or other people whose quality of life, being able to FUNCTION, being able to WORK productively, being able to find some enjoyment in the simplest, often taken for granted physical interaction with family, friends, loved ones, or even our daily environment who are DEPENDENT upon the prevention of or at least reduction of excruciating disabling pain and making it so much worse than it should or could be.
Pharmacies and pharmacists are in FEAR of government agencies and the counterproductive "rules" that they and bureaucrats put in place to appear as though "they are doing something".
So as to not get political in this general forum, I'll wrap up with this:
Anyone who personally finds this thread on Kratom interesting for their own needs or needs of friends, family, loved ones, or just to be better informed, please do your own research. If you are considering taking, trying, or tapering or halting the use of ANY Kratom products or Rx meds, consult with your doctor(s). Keep in mind that "officials" unfortunately have their own financial situation held above all else. There are social platforms that are dedicated to the unbiased or SELF-HELP biased availability of information about all of these topics and products.
I hope what I've added helps...
"pseudoindoxyl" with a brief mention of the predecessor to these 2 far more effective products.
I am NOT a medical doctor nor have any training in that field, and I will state as is also stated on the packaging of these products that anyone should consult a healthcare professional BEFORE consuming ANY of these products, along with other cautions, caveats, and warnings. JMO/YRMV.
This evaluation is primarily focused on their use as pain relievers and to prevent withdrawals in those who are or have been in long term pain management with opioid use.
I'm sure they're effective to combat negative effects of short-term opioid use, and the higher the Rx opioid dose(s) used or prescribed, the greater the benefits of getting away from Rx opioids to prevent long term dependence. The Kratom products are effective in tapering down to the point of eliminating the use of either Rx opioids and the Kratom alkaloids, because the body will develop dependence with either or both of these products.
Originally "concentrated" Kratom mitraginine capsules like OPMS Gold were of interest as they were a low volume/high yield product to get the desired results in this application, BUT they were still lacking the ability to reliably achieve the desired results which are primarily preventing physical and to a much lesser degree psychological withdrawals. While better than nothing, the side effects (an uneasy, "speedy" effect) and the minimal effectiveness really reduced them to a "break glass only in emergency" option. By "low volume/high yield" I am referring to the higher potency of the OPMS Gold capsule contents vs the more widespread capsules or powders that require a MUCH higher volume ingestion to get enough of the chemicals that are effective, but barely effective as stated regarding their relative lack of desired effect).
Now, on to what has been a literal blessing from God, especially compared to going cold turkey which results in brutal withdrawals and a perceived higher level of pain(s) than the pain(s) that were so intense as to indicate the use of opioids to prevent or address it in the first place.
Pseudoindoxyl has undoubtedly been the most effective mitraginine alkaloid for use in the treatment and prevention of debilitating pain and prevention of withdrawal symptoms. This derivative also seems to focus on the physiology of pain relief versus some of the other effects that some users of Kratom, especially "recreational users" may be looking to experience.
From several articles I've read, pseudoindoxyl is a metabolite of 7-hydroxymitragynine, so common sense, historical comparison (and likely lab results) along with experience means that IF the effects of pseudoindoxyl is what someone is desiring to achieve, it is better to start out with that Kratom alkaloid (pseudoindoxyl) vs using
"7-hydroxymitragynine" and having it be converted into pseudoindoxyl in the body. This pseudoindoxyl is not only more effective to relieve pain and prevent withdrawals, but it also means there are FAR fewer chances of having undesired side-effects, some that can be so uncomfortable or even potentially harmful or dangerous as to make the use of some "7-hydroxymitragynine" products a No-Go, non-option.
After having good results with the MOJO7OHMS product, it was noticed that a "batch" of that product that seemed to be much fresher, better kept in transit, maybe even created by an improved manufacturing system wound up causing much stronger side-effects in ways that were NOT the intended benefit of pain management, and had very speedy effects, even difficult to describe "angina" effects, like when you drink coffee or other caffeine containing substance in excess.
In the middle of the
"7-hydroxymitragynine" versus pseudoindoxyl products available, there is a product that splits the alkaloids 50/50, and since the pseudoindoxyl is best for pain management, I would suggest that if 100% pseudoindoxyl is not available, the 50/50 split is better than the straight
"7-hydroxymitragynine" product.
Last note: Many of these tablets may have a similar appearance, but some have higher concentration of the desired alkaloids in a physically similar or even smaller tablet, so it's imperative to read what each TABLET contains, and also each SERVING. For example, when 100% pseudoindoxyl tablets were desired but not available, the next best choice would typically be a 50/50 tablet, and each tablet had 10mg of each alkaloid (7-hydroxymitragynine AND 10mg of pseudoindoxyl). They can be had for as little as $5/tablet, pack of 4 for $20. Doing the math on a few common packages and their effectiveness and cost/value:
**ABSOLUTE BEST for pain relief and effectiveness per dollar:
Hydroxie brand pseudoindoxyl (RED packaging) 10 tablets per pack, 15mg per tablet, $50/pack of 10=$5 each tablet:
The above product was the first concentrated Kratom alkaloid tablet introduced to my knowledge base and it is reported to be so effective as to be considered by MANY as a literal Gift from God. Effective Pain relief at a level basically identical to, possibly superior to common but high strength Rx opioids. Beneficial effects last appx 4-6 hours per tablet (again YRMV) each tablet is "2 servings".
NOTE: Hydroxie offers a single tablet ("2 servings") pack as a FREE SAMPLE! They are the ONLY ones who do this as far as I know, so if anyone wants to try this kind of product, it's a great opportunity.
Here's the link to their free sample page. The 7-hydroxymitragynine (BLUE) 1-tablet pack is also available as a free sample, but I "think" you can only choose one or the other.
Samples
**This next one is the 50/50 product. 10mg of each of the 2 alkaloids, 20mg combined per tablet. Very effective and "tied for 2nd place" with a different 100% 7-hydroxymitragynine only product that will follow this one. Also $5 per tablet:
**This next product is so similar in effect to the above shown 50/50 alk mix 20mg tabs as to be considered "tied for 2nd place". I think part of the reason is these tablets are 30mg EACH so about 50% to 100% more concentrated than most of the other offerings in this kind of product, even though it only has the 7-hydroxymitragynine alkaloid in it.
5 pack of 30mg tablets for $30=$6/Tablet BUT only $3 per 15mg and very effective = very good value.
Unlike the MOJO7OHMS product, I haven't seen any reports on these causing angina or over caffeinated feelings:
**Last in this list is the 4 pack of 15mg 100% 7-hydroxymitragynine tablets by the same company that makes the 50/50 tablets shown 2nd. While not as effective as the 50/50 tabs, these are effective without undesired side-effects. $20 pack of 4=$5 per tablet:
There's too many people having problems with opioids in the United States today, but for the uninformed, unaffected, or uninterested, they may not know that opium use and addiction is a centuries and even millennia old story (literally a topic or background in many famous stories, and affected Edgar Allen Poe severely). Opioid addiction in the last 20-30 years or so has been exposed to the public through special presentations and movies, and in the media (both propagandist leftist and independent digital media) but has really made headlines in the last few years because of border policies and the FLOOD of fentanyl crossing our borders. Fake Rx pills, usually imitation opioids but fentanyl is also showing up in totally unrelated drugs and places, and I pray fentanyl will never be successfully used as part of a mass-scale terror attack.
In their pathetic and typically COUNTERPRODUCTIVE ways, the DEA and FDA, doctors who let "fear" rule their treatment protocols instead of what is best for the patient, FEAR in place of the Hippocratic Oath, they and others have taken a bad situation they are largely responsible for, or at least inarguably responsible for making FAR FAR WORSE than it was, and they are making the legal, legitimate, and necessary availability of Rx opioids to patients or other people whose quality of life, being able to FUNCTION, being able to WORK productively, being able to find some enjoyment in the simplest, often taken for granted physical interaction with family, friends, loved ones, or even our daily environment who are DEPENDENT upon the prevention of or at least reduction of excruciating disabling pain and making it so much worse than it should or could be.
Pharmacies and pharmacists are in FEAR of government agencies and the counterproductive "rules" that they and bureaucrats put in place to appear as though "they are doing something".
So as to not get political in this general forum, I'll wrap up with this:
Anyone who personally finds this thread on Kratom interesting for their own needs or needs of friends, family, loved ones, or just to be better informed, please do your own research. If you are considering taking, trying, or tapering or halting the use of ANY Kratom products or Rx meds, consult with your doctor(s). Keep in mind that "officials" unfortunately have their own financial situation held above all else. There are social platforms that are dedicated to the unbiased or SELF-HELP biased availability of information about all of these topics and products.
I hope what I've added helps...
Similar threads
