Lifter and cam questions

[Gary Stavely]

Hello
I just have a couple questions about my cam choice, and wether I should swith to 68 and up style pushrods and lifters.
after a previous post a couple years ago, I ended up going with the speed pro 2315 nf pistons .040 in my 383. I have the 915 heads but they do only have the 1.6 exhaust valves, which is where they sit all rebuilt with comp cams 911 springs installed, 130 lbs closed pressure.
I have a 6301mopar intake and a set of hp exhaust manifolds that will be going on the engine. My cam choice is the summit 6401, I was thinking at the time it was the right choice? If I stick with the 67 style push rods I would have to use the comp cams 824 lifters, does this seem like the logical choice? I also think I will use the .020 gasket for the heads so I can ge in the quench range. I am hoping this will work for a cruiser and not looking to make a strip car, any input would be great. It's looking like I may have to take on the project myself, just waiting to hear back from a fella but the builder I had the engine with was closing up shop so I had to go pick everything up a couple days ago.

 

[Gary Stavely]

These are all in great shape, I am hoping they will be up to the task and work with the 824 lifters well, I kinda wish I still had the stock one but I don't...

 

[DanielSlocum]

I dont trust comp or summit lifters. Highly recommend you find at least 20 year old nos lifters or buy Jonson lifters from Hughes Engines. Otherwise......your chances of lobe/lifter failure [which fills your engine with metal shavings] is quite high.
Good luck.

 

[fourgearsavoy]

My vote would be a Howard's cam and EDM lifters. Go to their website and punch in your information and they will hook you up with a cam to fit your needs. The last cam I got from them was an over achiever with more torque than I expected. It broke in good and is still in use today in another engine.

 

[Gary Stavely]

My vote would be a Howard's cam and EDM lifters. Go to their website and punch in your information and they will hook you up with a cam to fit your needs. The last cam I got from them was an over achiever with more torque than I expected. It broke in good and is still in use today in another engine.

Probably pretty expensive, I was looking at the Hughes but they are very expensive. Especially with the exchange rate and duty fees... what about old nos 822 comp cam lifters? Where they a better product during the say 70s?

 

[Don Frelier]

I think a summit cam would be fine.
I've been running summit pushrods for over 25 years. I would just get new pushrods and use the summit lifters. The break in procedure is key.

Edit:
I would suggest the smaller Summit cam the 6400 instead.
The bigger one is better in a 440.

 

[lewtot184]

I wouldn't use 911 springs with that cam. 911's are too aggressive for that profile and stamped steel rockers.

 

[Gary Stavely]

I wouldn't use 911 springs with that cam. 911's are too aggressive for that profile and stamped steel rockers.

What would be the difference between those springs and383 hp springs?

I wouldn't use 911 springs with that cam. 911's are too aggressive for that profile and stamped steel rockers.

Why do you say that? I definitely didn't want the lower 109 or so closed pressure. These were advertised at 122 but installed they came at 130, stock for the 67 hp 383 engine was 134 .

 

[Geoff 2]

You wouldn't trust any of today's crap FT lifters. There is no such thing as Hughes or Comp lifters. They buy them from the supplier & put them in their own box. Another customer fooled....
Get your factory lifters re-faced & they will be *** good as new. I have heard good reports about Oregon cams, maybe someone will chime in...

 

[Gary Stavely]

You wouldn't trust any of today's crap FT lifters. There is no such thing as Hughes or Comp lifters. They buy them from the supplier & put them in their own box. Another customer fooled....
Get your factory lifters re-faced & they will be *** good as new. I have heard good reports about Oregon cams, maybe someone will chime in...

I would but they are long gone, I am looking for some nos lifters but they are hard to find...

 

[lewtot184]

What would be the difference between those springs and383 hp springs?

Why do you say that? I definitely didn't want the lower 109 or so closed pressure. These were advertised at 122 but installed they came at 130, stock for the 67 hp 383 engine was 134 .

You need to do some research on this. Look at spring rates. That summit cam has generic crane lobes that are pretty gentle. I seriously doubt that a 67 383 has 134lb seat pressure; the 911 will with about 370lb spring rate. I bet it was closer to 100-110lbs with a 250lb spring rate. I've heard the dummies at summit are telling people to use the 911 spring with that cam. Do what you want.

 

[Rebelrouser]

Hello
I just have a couple questions about my cam choice, and wether I should swith to 68 and up style pushrods and lifters.
after a previous post a couple years ago, I ended up going with the speed pro 2315 nf pistons .040 in my 383. I have the 915 heads but they do only have the 1.6 exhaust valves, which is where they sit all rebuilt with comp cams 911 springs installed, 130 lbs closed pressure.
I have a 6301mopar intake and a set of hp exhaust manifolds that will be going on the engine. My cam choice is the summit 6401, I was thinking at the time it was the right choice? If I stick with the 67 style push rods I would have to use the comp cams 824 lifters, does this seem like the logical choice? I also think I will use the .020 gasket for the heads so I can ge in the quench range. I am hoping this will work for a cruiser and not looking to make a strip car, any input would be great. It's looking like I may have to take on the project myself, just waiting to hear back from a fella but the builder I had the engine with was closing up shop so I had to go pick everything up a couple days ago.

With the supply issues of decent flat tappet cams and lifters, I will not install a flat tappet camshaft in any engine build for a customer period. I have rented my dyno to customers wanting to break-in a cam and seen them fail after doing everything by the book. Got no time or energy to get into a pissing contest about whose fault it is that a cam failed and filled the new engine with metal. Yes, it is a few hundred dollars more for a hydraulic roller, but you don't have any issues with break-in, you do not need to worry about oil additives, and you can get a short duration for street manners and a much higher lift than a flat tappet of the same duration so you get all kinds of torque out of the engine, lot of advantages for a hydraulic roller. OEM engines have not used a flat tappet since the 90's How many workers are left that actually know how to grind a lifter? How old is the equipment they are trying to use? We hotrodders are a relatively small market do they really care if they sell us junk? And while it is a few hundred dollars more for the roller how much will it cost to pull it back apart, new gaskets, new bearings, and maybe new pistons and fresh hone job? Seen metal embedded in piston skirts a lot with a flat camshaft.

 

[Gary Stavely]

With the supply issues of decent flat tappet cams and lifters, I will not install a flat tappet camshaft in any engine build for a customer period. I have rented my dyno to customers wanting to break-in a cam and seen them fail after doing everything by the book. Got no time or energy to get into a pissing contest about whose fault it is that a cam failed and filled the new engine with metal. Yes, it is a few hundred dollars more for a hydraulic roller, but you don't have any issues with break-in, you do not need to worry about oil additives, and you can get a short duration for street manners and a much higher lift than a flat tappet of the same duration so you get all kinds of torque out of the engine, lot of advantages for a hydraulic roller. OEM engines have not used a flat tappet since the 90's How many workers are left that actually know how to grind a lifter? How old is the equipment they are trying to use? We hotrodders are a relatively small market do they really care if they sell us junk? And while it is a few hundred dollars more for the roller how much will it cost to pull it back apart, new gaskets, new bearings, and maybe new pistons and fresh hone job? Seen metal embedded in piston skirts a lot with a flat camshaft.

It seems to be more than a few hundred dollars more, I could be wrong but it seems the sky is the limit on a good set of rollers... With that being said, I could spring for a good set of flat tappet hydraulic lifters. I have decided to go with the 68 and up 5/16 pushrods, I am looking at the highlift johnson lifters now. Are they really worth the extra expense, say over even the comp 822 lifters?

 

[DanielSlocum]

It seems to be more than a few hundred dollars more, I could be wrong but it seems the sky is the limit on a good set of rollers... With that being said, I could spring for a good set of flat tappet hydraulic lifters. I have decided to go with the 68 and up 5/16 pushrods, I am looking at the highlift johnson lifters now. Are they really worth the extra expense, say over even the comp 822 lifters?

I dont know 100% how good the Johnsons are. I do know that comp lifters have a very bad reputation with a lot of people who have had failures including myself. Comps stuff used to be all good for many years,but i think they were bought out and the new owner proceeded to unleash the bean counters who started cheapening things up. When they do fail.....you usually get metal shavings throughout your expensive new engine.Even piston skirts and cylinder bores can get damaged,along with the crank journals and all the bearings in extreme cases. Its total B.S. and heads should have rolled over it a long time ago. Good luck.

 

[Gary Stavely]

I dont know 100% how good the Johnsons are. I do know that comp lifters have a very bad reputation with a lot of people who have had failures including myself. Comps stuff used to be all good for many years,but i think they were bought out and the new owner proceeded to unleash the bean counters who started cheapening things up. When they do fail.....you usually get metal shavings throughout your expensive new engine.Even piston skirts and cylinder bores can get damaged,along with the crank journals and all the bearings in extreme cases. Its total B.S. and heads should have rolled over it a long time ago. Good luck.

Thanks! Yeah this is starting to piss me off... Shouldn't be so hard, and at one time it wasn't.

 

[Rebelrouser]

It seems to be more than a few hundred dollars more, I could be wrong but it seems the sky is the limit on a good set of rollers... With that being said, I could spring for a good set of flat tappet hydraulic lifters. I have decided to go with the 68 and up 5/16 pushrods, I am looking at the highlift johnson lifters now. Are they really worth the extra expense, say over even the comp 822 lifters?

I would buy nothing but Johnson lifters for a flat tappet cam. I do not trust much from Comp Cams their roller cams are good, never used the new lifters, have not heard much good about them. Deal is even if they replace the cam and lifters, they will not pay for all the rest, been there and have the T-shirt.
I been using Herbert roller cams and lifters on my street builds. Camshafts / Valvetrain - Herbert Camshafts & Kits - Hydraulic Roller - Chrysler Big Block - HERBERT CAMS & PARTS They have worked fine for several engines just this year.
You will have to buy pushrods as the lifter bodies are taller. And you can use the stock rockers IF you get the right length push rods, I try and talk my customers into adjustable valve gear.

 

[Gary Stavely]

I would buy nothing but Johnson lifters for a flat tappet cam. I do not trust much from Comp Cams their roller cams are good, never used the new lifters, have not heard much good about them. Deal is even if they replace the cam and lifters, they will not pay for all the rest, been there and have the T-shirt.
I been using Herbert roller cams and lifters on my street builds. Camshafts / Valvetrain - Herbert Camshafts & Kits - Hydraulic Roller - Chrysler Big Block - HERBERT CAMS & PARTS They have worked fine for several engines just this year.
You will have to buy pushrods as the lifter bodies are taller. And you can use the stock rockers IF you get the right length push rods, I try and talk my customers into adjustable valve gear.

Those look like good cams... I spoke to a builder today and he mentioned Iskadarian lifters, he did strongly recommend going with rollers but if not the Isky lifters and maybe s Howard's cam. I am contemplating some things now, I have some time still so I am on the hunt for some NOS chrysler components. I am kinda wondering though if anyone has used the mopar performance purple cam kit? I like the specs on that cam , I think it would work very well for my application , if it will stand up over time.
Not really here to bash any company's , so please to anyone who replies keep it clean please...

 

[Kern Dog]

Yes, it is a few hundred dollars more for a hydraulic roller, but you don't have any issues with break-in, you do not need to worry about oil additives, and you can get a short duration for street manners and a much higher lift than a flat tappet of the same duration so you get all kinds of torque out of the engine, lot of advantages for a hydraulic roller
And while it is a few hundred dollars more for the roller how much will it cost to pull it back apart, new gaskets, new bearings, and maybe new pistons and fresh hone job? Seen metal embedded in piston skirts a lot with a flat camshaft.

A "few" hundred dollars more?

Try three times the cost, maybe four when you factor in the cost of a quality cam, reliable roller lifters, shorter pushrods, a new distributor drive, fuel pump pushrod, timing cover, cam button and whatever else is different.

It seems to be more than a few hundred dollars more, I could be wrong but it seems the sky is the limit on a good set of rollers...

Yes...Hydraulic flat tappet lifters for $200 or less a set or $1000 for decent roller lifters.

 

[Rebelrouser]

A "few" hundred dollars more?

View attachment 1717702

Try three times the cost, maybe four when you factor in the cost of a quality cam, reliable roller lifters, shorter pushrods, a new distributor drive, fuel pump pushrod, timing cover, cam button and whatever else is different.


Yes...Hydraulic flat tappet lifters for $200 or less a set or $1000 for decent roller lifters.

View attachment 1717707

Again, add up the cost of a failed engine, add up the savings of not having to worry about break-in, adding oil additives, the advantages or short duration and high lift in performance. Plus, I hate to say it, but I do not trust my customers to put the proper oil in an engine with a flat tappet camshaft, if they can't buy it at Wal-Mart, they usually don't buy it. I used to recommend Rotella, but even that oil has had the wear additives reduced.
I have been building engines since 1974.
All flat tappet lifters properly broke-in will have a spiral type of pattern on the face. The engines that come into my shop even the ones that are not yet flat simply do not have that pattern anymore. I cannot blame just the cam or lifters, but I believe it is both surfaces that are no longer machined correctly. If you must run a flat tappet camshaft as many Circle Track racers do then there are suppliers for those cams, and I hate to tell you the lifters cost a heck of a lot more than $100.00; And quality cams are comparable in cost to a hydraulic roller. People are bringing me engines to fix that had the mindset of simply throw a $100 set of lifters in it.

Like I said I do not install flat tappet cams anymore, I am too old to deal with the pissing contest of what to do with a failed engine and who pays for it.

 

[Kern Dog]

I don't dispute the argument that a roller setup is better, I dispute the "few hundred dollars more" claim. The cost is literally double at a minimum. To dismiss or down-play the cost difference is a disservice to everyone.