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Lifter Failure after brand new rebuild run in.

fluffoffal

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Hi All.
Looking for a little American knowledge all the way over from here in Australia.

After being in the shop for 2 years, due to some component failure by previous owner, I finally received my 400/500 stroker back from the engine builder with a Comp full hydraulic roller package instead of the previous solid roller build.

We pulled rocker covers off and inspected and noticed one of the lifters was not pumped up even though engine builder had primed it before giving it back to me.
After re installing the engine back into the car, re priming to pump lifter back up and following his run in instructions of 2000rpm for 4 mins, there was a fair bit of valve train noise, we re adjusted lash/preload and motor ran fairly quietly.
We drained oil and cut open filter and there was nothing nasty in there.
The engine had excellent oil pressure the whole time at around 80psi at 2000rpm and 70psi at a 900rpm idle.

The next day, started car up again and was running on 7 cylinders again so I pulled covers again and noticed 2 lifters were now no longer pumped up.

After pulling the intake, rockers, push rods and lifters, it seems that the problem is that the lifters are travelling too high out of the bores at full lift and getting caught. There is light scoring on the bottom 1/4 of most of the lifters consistent with their travel in the bores and some of the rollers now have rough spots when rolling. All lifter bores are fine, non have been re-sleeved.

Is there something that is being missed here? I can’t get onto Comp as they are closed but is there a lifter that has more meat further down that comes down over the roller a bit more like a Howard’s that will give more support in bore at full lift?

Has anyone else had similar issues?
How can Comp sell this type of lifter if it is such a poor design?
Is there something different about the 400 block lifter bores?
I am now back to the start again minus a big chunk of cash but at least I caught it early this time.

The engine builder doesn’t seem to want anything to do with it and has extremely poor social skills which has been a major issue through out the whole build. I was never really keen to use Comp components either, so now I am trying to reach out to people that have knowledge of these engines as I am by no means an expert on any of this.

These Mopars are no where near as common as Chev/Ford stuff over here in Australia.

Where do I go from here?

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G'day mate. I am in Sydney. When you say the lifters are too high out of their bores, do you mean the oil band is exposed at max lobe lift? Maybe wrong lifters [ small block? ].
What are the lifters catching on?
 
G'day mate. I am in Sydney. When you say the lifters are too high out of their bores, do you mean the oil band is exposed at max lobe lift? Maybe wrong lifters [ small block? ].
What are the lifters catching on?
The oil band isn’t exposed, but the lifters don’t seem to have enough skirt all the way down over the roller like other better brands do therefore not enough surface area remains in lifter bore at full lift resulting in extreme side loading.
G'day mate. I am in Sydney. When you say the lifters are too high out of their bores, do you mean the oil band is exposed at max lobe lift? Maybe wrong lifters [ small block? ].
What are the lifters catching on?
 
I don't think that the lifter bores were any different from the early 350-361 blocks to the last of the 400 and 440 ones. There were some small changes over the years in terms of cooling passages and the material used for the blocks but overall, they are rumored to otherwise be similar. I've read that core shift got worse toward the end though. Some of that isn't a problem though since the machining is based on specific centerlines. Core shift does not affect lifter bore heights.
There is a lot of good info on the440source.com site regarding the differences in engine blocks.
I have heard about noisy operation with the hydraulic roller lifters. Comp Cams seems to think that this is normal and acceptable. Many owners disagree.
The lifter bores are pretty short in these engines. Because of that, when I was contemplating a roller cam, I was leaning toward a solid lifter since I thought I read that the solid lifters had a shorter body.
Good luck to you.
 
Thanks mate.
Yeah I have read all the info on the 440source page about blocks. Very good info. I will look at going down the solid roller avenue. As long as my lifter bores are ok. If not, I guess it will be a full year down again and maybe drop longer bushings into them.
 
What’s the length of the roller lifter? Do you have Comp’s item number?
 
I can measure it tomorrow. I don’t have the item number because the engine builder has not given it to me and I can’t get hold of him.
 
Hi All.
Looking for a little American knowledge all the way over from here in Australia.

After being in the shop for 2 years, due to some component failure by previous owner, I finally received my 400/500 stroker back from the engine builder with a Comp full hydraulic roller package instead of the previous solid roller build.

We pulled rocker covers off and inspected and noticed one of the lifters was not pumped up even though engine builder had primed it before giving it back to me.
After re installing the engine back into the car, re priming to pump lifter back up and following his run in instructions of 2000rpm for 4 mins, there was a fair bit of valve train noise, we re adjusted lash/preload and motor ran fairly quietly.
We drained oil and cut open filter and there was nothing nasty in there.
The engine had excellent oil pressure the whole time at around 80psi at 2000rpm and 70psi at a 900rpm idle.

The next day, started car up again and was running on 7 cylinders again so I pulled covers again and noticed 2 lifters were now no longer pumped up.

After pulling the intake, rockers, push rods and lifters, it seems that the problem is that the lifters are travelling too high out of the bores at full lift and getting caught. There is light scoring on the bottom 1/4 of most of the lifters consistent with their travel in the bores and some of the rollers now have rough spots when rolling. All lifter bores are fine, non have been re-sleeved.

Is there something that is being missed here? I can’t get onto Comp as they are closed but is there a lifter that has more meat further down that comes down over the roller a bit more like a Howard’s that will give more support in bore at full lift?

Has anyone else had similar issues?
How can Comp sell this type of lifter if it is such a poor design?
Is there something different about the 400 block lifter bores?
I am now back to the start again minus a big chunk of cash but at least I caught it early this time.

The engine builder doesn’t seem to want anything to do with it and has extremely poor social skills which has been a major issue through out the whole build. I was never really keen to use Comp components either, so now I am trying to reach out to people that have knowledge of these engines as I am by no means an expert on any of this.

These Mopars are no where near as common as Chev/Ford stuff over here in Australia.

Where do I go from here?

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You might see Challenger340's 2nd posting about 1/2 down the first page of this thread........
Comment on hydraulic rollers.
 
Yes, there continues to be hyd rlr lifter issues nationwide on every brand name of lifters. We have tried all of them. With the hundreds of engines we build every year we test, prime and dyno every engine. We are lucky enough to have more than enough stock in our inventory. When we do have a failure, we just pull one or several from another set. We quarantine the defective lifters until we accumulate 16 defective lifters for a full set and then return the entire set.
 
This is a tough one to figure out. Wouldn't hurt to double check and measure as others have stated...But it sounds like you were thorough and covered most things.
G'day mate. I am in Sydney. When you say the lifters are too high out of their bores, do you mean the oil band is exposed at max lobe lift? Maybe wrong lifters [ small block? ].
What are the lifters catching on?
What’s the length of the roller lifter? Do you have Comp’s item number?

According to Comp's site, all the specifications between small/big block hydraulic roller lifters are identical in measurements and have a height of 2.300".

I have heard mixed results of Comp's hydraulic roller lifters collapsing/failing in the last several years for other makes - but I apologize as I have no facts to back that up.

I have a couple silly questions. Are your cam bearings still tight and proper thrust still there? And are there any signs of the pushrods rubbing on the heads? If that's all fine, I'd be inclined to believe the lifters are simply defective. As long as they were adjusted pretty close to begin with and have their matched springs - There's really not much else to go wrong.
 
This is a tough one to figure out. Wouldn't hurt to double check and measure as others have stated...But it sounds like you were thorough and covered most things.



According to Comp's site, all the specifications between small/big block hydraulic roller lifters are identical in measurements and have a height of 2.300".

I have heard mixed results of Comp's hydraulic roller lifters collapsing/failing in the last several years for other makes - but I apologize as I have no facts to back that up.

I have a couple silly questions. Are your cam bearings still tight and proper thrust still there? And are there any signs of the pushrods rubbing on the heads? If that's all fine, I'd be inclined to believe the lifters are simply defective. As long as they were adjusted pretty close to begin with and have their matched springs - There's really not much else to go wrong.
No signs of any of that stuff. It’s the scuffing on each lifter that has me stuffed too. It’s consistent with not enough lifter surface remaining in bore at full lift resulting in the lifter becoming out of parallel with the bore.

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Sounds like Comp Cams had a bad run of those lifters. I would send the defective ones back to Comp Cams for replacements. Where you’re overseas, it might be a pain in the ***.
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We have had issues with Morel lifters also. Along with Comp, old Cranes, Isky, John Kaase, Johnson, lunati, Crower, Howard's, Butler Performance, Ford Racing & GM Performance to name a few.
 
We have had issues with Morel lifters also. Along with Comp, old Cranes, Isky, John Kaase, Johnson, lunati, Crower, Howard's, Butler Performance, Ford Racing & GM Performance to name a few.
Good to know.

Can you share the details of your issues with the Isky and Crower roller lifters along with their respective part numbers.
Thanks
 
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There will always be some scuffing on the thrust faces of roller lifters due to the levering action of how they work.
 
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