Lithium battery

[j-c-c-62]

Likely as the first available human recycled ensuing fire suppressor?

 

[6PKRTSE]

I am on my second Braile battery. Only got about 2 years or so out of it. Sent it back for pro rating, tried numerous times for the credit with no reply. My second one does the same thing.
Never been real happy with either one. Even stone cold after sitting for a while it struggles to start unless I have the required Braile trickle charger on it and it shows green (fully charged). And, this is with only a 10.5:1 pump gas Hemi.
I also run an alternator, so it stays charged while on the street. I get nervous at times while it rolls over after being parked at a cruise night, car show or between rounds at the track.
Never let me down outside of my own driveway or garage so far, luckily though.

 

[j-c-c-62]

What CA? was it rated?

 

[Cranky]

Don't play with yourself, you'll go blind.

Sex without protection always results in unwanted pregnancy.

Not blind yet and only 2 kids resulted from unprotected sex and they were wanted..... IF there were others, I don't know about them and if there were others, they'd be in their 50's or more by now.

As for the batteries, I'm still not sold on them but am keeping up on the advancements. However by the time they are ready to take over the regular car batteries, I probably won't be wanting to drive anymore lol

 

[Bird 426]

I am with dadsbee on this one. This comes from experience with one of the Earth X ones in an airplane. It didn't stay in there long, went back to where he started.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Not blind yet and only 2 kids resulted from unprotected sex and they were wanted..... IF there were others, I don't know about them and if there were others, they'd be in their 50's or more by now.

As for the batteries, I'm still not sold on them but am keeping up on the advancements. However by the time they are ready to take over the regular car batteries, I probably won't be wanting to drive anymore lol

What about my hairy palms then?

 

[Kern Dog]

At the risk of displaying my lack of knowledge in the matter, I present the following:
In 2013 I moved the battery to the trunk. The reason? I wanted to move weight from the front and to the rear. This is a classic drag racer trick but it helps for handling too. Our cars are naturally nose heavy so it is beneficial to shift weight to the rear when you can.

I used a steel battery box from an A-100 van. I wired in a FORD solenoid.

This works. I have a 1/0 positive cable going from the solenoid through the interior and through the firewall directly in line with the starter. This 1/0 cable only has power while cranking. I have a trigger wire that sends power to the 1/0 cable to start. The starter has a buss bar on the terminals so once it gets power, it spins. I have a full length ground cable from the battery to the back of the engine and another ground to the rear frame rail. Yeah, it works but lately I’ve thought of the trunk mount setup and what it cost in terms of weight. The battery itself…

Just a smidge over 40 lbs and it is smaller than a group 24. Add it up… the additional length of the lead cable from front to back, the two grounds and the trigger wire. Moving the battery to the trunk did shift weight but at the cost of maybe another 20+ lbs.
This is why the idea of these lightweight batteries is interesting. If it is possible to have similar or better cranking power with a fraction of the weight, that is tempting. I checked the charge on Dwayne’s battery…

Then I tried it in my car to see how it would start. Wow….the starter spun faster that it ever has. I’ve had my own lead-acid battery to the mid 12s of charge, my charging unit shuts off around 12.7 or so with this NAPA battery. The car starts fine with the NAPA battery but is a lot faster with the higher charge Lithium one.
Why? Is it the extra voltage that makes the difference or the design of the battery?
I really don’t like the extra bulk in the engine bay but if a lithium battery were to exist that was only half to 2/3 the thickness of the lead-acid one, I could live with it. Dwayne’s battery is 7 lbs. Mine is 40 1/2. A front mounted battery could save some serious weight.

 

[j-c-c-62]

While we are on the subject, Decades back I had a second Generation BMW E32 which was their big car. Its handling impressed me. One oddity was I found the battery under the back seat.
With one of my project street/track cars, a 62 GT Lancer, I attempted to emulate that solution. I deleted the back seat, and it's a single exhaust. Thinking is, the lower any weight is the better, and weight placed between the axles is better (for handling, not drag).
The Batt tray pictured here is less than 6' from the starter, vented to outside, and cable will be inside..

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

At the risk of displaying my lack of knowledge in the matter, I present the following:
In 2013 I moved the battery to the trunk. The reason? I wanted to move weight from the front and to the rear. This is a classic drag racer trick but it helps for handling too. Our cars are naturally nose heavy so it is beneficial to shift weight to the rear when you can.

View attachment 1642682

I used a steel battery box from an A-100 van. I wired in a FORD solenoid.

View attachment 1642683

This works. I have a 1/0 positive cable going from the solenoid through the interior and through the firewall directly in line with the starter. This 1/0 cable only has power while cranking. I have a trigger wire that sends power to the 1/0 cable to start. The starter has a buss bar on the terminals so once it gets power, it spins. I have a full length ground cable from the battery to the back of the engine and another ground to the rear frame rail. Yeah, it works but lately I’ve thought of the trunk mount setup and what it cost in terms of weight. The battery itself…

View attachment 1642685

Just a smidge over 40 lbs and it is smaller than a group 24. Add it up… the additional length of the lead cable from front to back, the two grounds and the trigger wire. Moving the battery to the trunk did shift weight but at the cost of maybe another 20+ lbs.
This is why the idea of these lightweight batteries is interesting. If it is possible to have similar or better cranking power with a fraction of the weight, that is tempting. I checked the charge on Dwayne’s battery…

View attachment 1642686

Then I tried it in my car to see how it would start. Wow….the starter spun faster that it ever has. I’ve had my own lead-acid battery to the mid 12s of charge, my charging unit shuts off around 12.7 or so with this NAPA battery. The car starts fine with the NAPA battery but is a lot faster with the higher charge Lithium one.
Why? Is it the extra voltage that makes the difference or the design of the battery?
I really don’t like the extra bulk in the engine bay but if a lithium battery were to exist that was only half to 2/3 the thickness of the lead-acid one, I could live with it. Dwayne’s battery is 7 lbs. Mine is 40 1/2. A front mounted battery could save some serious weight.

Greg, what's the cold cranking amps on your lead acid battery?
Notice on my Lithium Titanate battery it also shows amps (this battery has a high rating), but it's not cold cranking amps because Lithium batteries work differently and are rated differently. Here's a good explanation from this website:
Lithium Cranking Amps and LiFePO4 CCA Guide - Power Sonic

Note that the lithium battery does not lose cranking power the more times you crank the starter. Please also note that this article uses a lithium iron phosphate battery as an example. Same principal as my lithium titanate battery. One difference between those two is cold weather starting. The lithium iron phosphate doesn't fare so well for charging in less than 32F. Not a big deal for most of us using these for our hot rods. The Lithium Titanate fares much better for cold weather and can charge at a low temperature of -40C (wow!)

 

[Kern Dog]

I’ll check that link when I’m in front of the computer. Right now I’m still out in the shop.
My CCAs are…

I don’t know how relevant that is though. I never am out here trying to start it in 32 degrees of weather. I hate the cold.
I stupidly left the trunk lid open and the trunk light drained my battery.
I charged it overnight with the trunk open and it didn’t charge all the way. I then did this:

Now it has moved from 11.9 to here in a couple of hours.

My understanding is that I should be between 12.3 to 13.2 to be fully charged, right?

 

[mmissile]

A friend was out with "the guys" on a sportbike ride. He had one in his ultra light-weight Yamaha. They were having lunch, and a person came in to ask "who has the bike that's on fire?"

Not pretty.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Here's another good video explaining the difference between lithium ion (same as lithium polymer, the dangerous one) and the safer lithium iron phosphate and why they use it in home solar applications. He does a drill puncture test showing no fire hazard. He also mentions Lithium Titanate at the 4:00 minute mark as being even safer.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

A friend was out with "the guys" on a sportbike ride. He had one in his ultra light-weight Yamaha. They were having lunch, and a person came in to ask "who has the bike that's on fire?"

Not pretty.

I'd bet money the friend had a lithium ion polymer type battery. If he had a Lithium Iron Phosphate or Lithium Titanate that wouldn't have happened. Check out my post # 33. Maybe this will clarify.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Lithium Iron Phosphate will soon replace Lithium Ion as battery of choice (Tesla agrees).

 

[YY1]

I bought one for my scooter a couple of years ago.
I want to say 12 AH
$70
Then, before it arrived I found a traditional LA batt at a thrift store NIB for $10, and bought that.
Last year my riding mower battery died. 350 CCA IIRC
The Li batt is only 260 CCA but it's been in there since the end of last season and is doing fine.

 

[mmissile]

I'd bet money the friend had a lithium ion polymer type battery. If he had a Lithium Iron Phosphate or Lithium Titanate that wouldn't have happened. Check out my post # 33. Maybe this will clarify.

No idea. It was 10 years ago, and I don't talk with him. I removed them from my bikes, after that.

 

[Kern Dog]

While we are on the subject....

It has been a few months, how is the battery working for you?

 

[YY1]

Season 2 of my mower with the slightly underpowered lithium batt.

Started right up after being dormant for several months.

Didn't even sound slow like the lead battery usually did on first start of the season.

 

[j-c-c-62]

It has been a few months, how is the battery working for you?

I blinked,
For evaluation, I replaced the 340A riding lawn mower battery with this battery, it started so fast it scared me, I killed the battery by leaving it on inadvertently for a week, but I was surprised how fast a Li 10A battery charger charged it back up, which really means it does not have much reserve capacity, which was understood from the get-go,

I likely will buy another for the car, and keep a "jump" pocket battery nearby. Not sure how they will get along.
So IMO, so far, so good.

And your point about the weight savings by keeping the battery up front has a lot of merit.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

It has been a few months, how is the battery working for you?

I know you didn't ask me, but my Li-Titanate battery is still working great. KD, you should spend the $ and get one for your car. You'll really enjoy the starting power and light weight as you saw when you swapped my battery into your car. I have the XS Power XV2400 (group size 24). Be sure to order with included terminals or order the terminal separate (they screw in), as well as the special charger from XS power (smallest cheapest they offer is the one you need).