Lower control arm stiffening plates?

[Kern Dog]

Think Bilstein if you can afford to step up in quality.
They are about $500 a set but they do ride great and handle excellent.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Hi everyone I personally gone down the rabbit hole. Larger tie rods, welded braces on lca, larger front sway bars, kyb shocks etc, etc. Borgeson steering box , everything new or rebuilt. Front and back. I did it bc I want a nice cruiser. That can handle turns and roads. I believe there's no right or wrong. Just personal preference & Safety.

I believe however there is a right and a wrong. I also believe it takes effort, and sometimes a lot of flak to find it out.
Everyone's "personal preference" here is similar IMO to grading one's own spelling bee, you achieve what you seek, every time.

 

[66 Sat]

Jeez can't you just let it alone? We get it - you're not a fan, but do you have to keep going on and on about it?
No wonder people call you names on here - you remind me of that annoying kid just poking and proddng and annoying everyone and then cries to the teacher when someone punches him.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Jeez can't you just let it alone? We get it - you're not a fan, but do you have to keep going on and on about it?
No wonder people call you names on here - you remind me of that annoying kid just poking and prodding and annoying everyone and then cries to the teacher when someone punches him.

I am not fan of anything excepting maybe reasoning, which you would know if you have read any of my replies carefully on this topic.
I reserve the right to respond to any response, whether you like it or not or no matter what names are tossed around, that more often make the name callers look like they are ones in grade school. If my counterpoints annoy others unsupported claims, sorry, that is not my problem.
Back on topic, the OP has now stated his path, and he got the "thoughts" of many he requested. I am perfectly fine with that.

 

[Eric F]

Well, the KYB shocks are a terrible choice for a cruiser. They make the cars ride like a Conestoga wagon.

Funny you mention KYB shocks. I have them on my Road Runner. I think they ride too soft.

 

[Kern Dog]

KYB Gas-A-Just, the ones that are painted white, are a digressive design, where a high quality non adjustable shock is progressive.
Digressive means that they are harsh at first but get softer as the shock goes through it's range of travel. The initial harshness bolsters a weak or low rate stock spring and gives owners the impression that their car rides firmer. This design is completely backwards of what makes sense for a performance car.
Progressive shocks are initially soft but they stiffen up during travel. This is an excellent design because it allows the suspension to soak up minor road imperfections without rattling the car. KYBs are a poor match for larger sized torsion bars and higher rate leaf springs but are not that bad on a totally stock suspension.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Funny you mention KYB shocks. I have them on my Road Runner. I think they ride too soft.

In my world "ride" and "handling" are two different qualities, and ride is of lessor importance for me. Ride being a more static steady state observation. Handing being a more dynamic seldom steady state observation. To have both usually requires some compromise somewhere.
With the results being rather subjective in most cases.

 

[Photon440]

Lower control arms are riveted together right? Have you ever lifted the hood on an old Camaro or Firebird. The riveted hinges almost always wear out. Many years of up and down can weaken and fatigue the metal. So thinking in that aspect would it not be conceivable for lower control arms to do the same? I mean after all most of these OE control arms are 50 years or older and many many miles on them. Adding a stiffening plate would surely help out the separation of the 2 halves and stop the slop. Ok so you can't find the logic in adding them but I see the logic in adding them who is wrong? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Adding a little metal to ensure structural integrity is surely not going to hurt.

Generally, the rivets on a hinge are a moving area, acting as a pivot point and the holes wear. The riveted control arms parts don't move about the riveted area, so the holes don't experience that wear. I've taken apart many riveted parts on train cars that were still locked solid after decades.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

I deleted my post after realizing they were in fact only riveted at the strut bar location. The rest was welded. But I guess I should have included that in the post. However I see nothing wrong with adding the plates.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Installed Hot steel rivets provide nearly a lifetime of high clamping force. I am unsure if the LCA rivets are installed hot, but I have never seen/read about one being loose, and if that was the concern, the 1/8" "stiffening plate" here would be nothing more than a poor band aid to prevent that 5/8" rivet failure.

I upgrade mine to bolts.

 

[gkent]

Installed Hot steel rivets provide nearly a lifetime of high clamping force. I am unsure if the LCA rivets are installed hot, but I have never seen/read about one being loose, and if that was the concern, the 1/8" "stiffening plate" here would be nothing more than a poor band aid to prevent that 5/8" rivet failure.

Ok look, we get you're dead set against the plates but will you give it a rest ! What's the big deal if someone wants to install them, adding them will do no harm and the price sure as hell isn't breaking the bank.

 

[Kern Dog]

Rick Ehrenberg isn't "God" but he did have some strong opinions worth considering.
He was a proponent of these reinforcements. He was a stickler for improved handling.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Ok look, we get you're dead set against the plates but will you give it a rest ! What's the big deal if someone wants to install them, adding them will do no harm and the price sure as hell isn't breaking the bank.

A bit sensitive are we?

You want reasons:
They are not provable "stiffening" plates in any real-world sense.
Their promotion as such takes advantage of those starting in the hobby of leading them to do something that only can be defended as "do no harm" that's usually disclosed after installation
They are a profit center for someone that likely justifies their promotion
They waste time and focus and efforts that could be better spent elsewhere looking for real improvements
They admittedly are just really a sugar pill panacea for chassis performance upgrades
Promoting "stiffening" plates as a solution for anything without a clear problem to be solved is right up there with the horrors promoted in Reefer Madness
Its engineering dishonesty, in that legit engineering requires clear understanding and identification of a problem before best solutions are determined and implemented

 

[j-c-c-62]

Rick Ehrenberg isn't "God" but he did have some strong opinions worth considering.
He was a proponent of these reinforcements. He was a stickler for improved handling.

I agree. but that was when going to a .96" TB was thought to make a car ride like a dump truck,
30? years ago. I wonder if his thinking has evolved and/or if he would acknowledge it has, many, no one in particular, do not seem to
have that ability.

 

[threewood]

A bit sensitive are we?

You want reasons:
They are not provable "stiffening" plates in any real-world sense.
Their promotion as such takes advantage of those starting in the hobby of leading them to do something that only can be defended as "do no harm" that's usually disclosed after installation
They are a profit center for someone that likely justifies their promotion
They waste time and focus and efforts that could be better spent elsewhere looking for real improvements
They admittedly are just really a sugar pill panacea for chassis performance upgrades
Promoting "stiffening" plates as a solution for anything without a clear problem to be solved is right up there with the horrors promoted in Reefer Madness
Its engineering dishonesty, in that legit engineering requires clear understanding and identification of a problem before best solutions are determined and implemented

So can you prove they don't do anything?

 

[j-c-c-62]

So can you prove they don't do anything?

I don't need to. I not promoting that they do anything.

You I assume missed this comment I made above:
"in that legit engineering requires clear understanding and identification of a problem before best solutions are determined and implemented"

 

[j-c-c-62]

Rick Ehrenberg isn't "God" but he did have some strong opinions worth considering.
He was a proponent of these reinforcements. He was a stickler for improved handling.

So, I went back into my old collection of Mopar Action mags that featured Rick and the Green Brick and I'll share a few pertinent chassis set-up tidbit takeaways/quotes, some are a little revealing:

December 93 Running a "383 TB" (.87 or .89") TB, disconnected rear swaybar as it made car too loose, No SFC, 225/50-15 tire

February 03 Running a .92" TB, SFC installed, "In the 60's the Mopar pro-rally guys used to box the open area (LCA), adding a ton of rigidity and very little weight. We'll do that soon with a real slick pair of CNC-cut plates now available from AR Engineering."