Magnum engine and timing

[Detective D]

Recently I decided based on observation that like most old V8's, my 318 Magnum in the Dakota prefers not to consume ethanol. The exhaust is smoother, it responds better, runs better period.
I can only basically get 91 or 93 octane with no ethanol in WI. probably because there are only two pipelines from the refinery coming up here and a major ethanol plant is in the middle of the state.

Anyway, it got me to thinking.

If I commit to premium 91, it may open the door to being able to reset the timing to take advantage. However, I am not versed in the 90's Dodge truck ECU's to know how sensitive they are to fuel octane and/or if they have adjustable timing tables based on sensor feedback like some other brands and newer vehicles, or if like Ferd back then they added timing at WOT or not.

has anyone here, using factory ECU, messed with timing on their 318 or 360 magnums? I am sure plenty here owned a 2nd gen Ram with either or. I had a 2001 with the 5.9 but never went that far, it didn't seem to mind the ethanol as much, although that was some years ago and admittedly the fuel quality has declined over time in general.
I don't want to buy a tuner chip. Looking to do this on the el-cheapo.
I can say, the ecu is crude enough when I took the rear O2 and zip tied it to the frame rail so I could cut the plugged up cat off, the ecu found it to be just fine. Mine is a 98. I know as close as 99 they started the 4 O2 sensor set up where they are on both sides of a cat off of both sides of the engine. So I may have the last of the old school where the O2 is only used on the front end to monitor A/F ratio for the ecu. I just don't know if there are knock sensors or other data the ecu uses for timing or fuel control.

Any experience on this would be helpful.

 

[YY1]

I have a 2000 5.9.

Ethanol or non-eth does not affect it.

Octane does, but...

On 87 or 89 it will ping pretty bad but only on WOT.

Changing to 93 cures this but only after the third full tank.

I have opted instead to use 87 and simply not engage WOT.

89 seems to have no effect, only 93 resolves the issue, and only a steady diet.

This truck is a secondary vehicle, used as a truck- for trailering and hauling, but mostly local, so keeping it in 93 at the almost a dollar per gallon price premium doesn't make sense for me.

If I'm planning a long, heavy pull- like buying an out of county car, I'll run a tank of 93 and drive it to work the week before, then use 93 only for the haul. Even then sometimes the pinging isn't fully out of the system halfway through the second full tank.

 

[Detective D]

I have a 2000 5.9.

Ethanol or non-eth does not affect it.

Octane does, but...

On 87 or 89 it will ping pretty bad but only on WOT.

Changing to 93 cures this but only after the third full tank.

I have opted instead to use 87 and simply not engage WOT.

89 seems to have no effect, only 93 resolves the issue, and only a steady diet.

This truck is a secondary vehicle, used as a truck- for trailering and hauling, but mostly local, so keeping it in 93 at the almost a dollar per gallon price premium doesn't make sense for me.

If I'm planning a long, heavy pull- like buying an out of county car, I'll run a tank of 93 and drive it to work the week before, then use 93 only for the haul. Even then sometimes the pinging isn't fully out of the system halfway through the second full tank.

That is interesting.
I haven't messed with anything in the months since I posted this. I have run some Seafoam in the tank.
Combining seafoam and 91, no ethanol, gas makes the truck run silky smooth. I don't know for sure but I would think adding seafoam further increases octane by a small amount(I put the big bottle in) as Seafoam certainly can't be as cumbustable as fuel.
I am finding on my 2002 8.1 big block Chevy similar. Those engines are actually a bit prone to detonation, and the nanny computer will use the sensors on the engine to engage the torque management system(basically neuter system) in order to avoid the pings. I put premium in, the thing pulls like a train. Of course, premium in a truck with a 28 gallon tank that gets 13mpg is not great. I am currently seeking alternative solutions, maybe a product that doesn't cost 25-30 dollars a tank like upgrading to premium does.

For the Dakota, there is a pretty big change year over year on the ECU/sensor systems they used. My truck uses the front O2 and the back one is actually simply there for CAT verification, meaning all it looks for is a different reading then the front one. In 99, they added a cat on each manifold if I recall correctly, and in 2000 Dodge did an ECU update, I know that from owning my Ram 1500 a few years back. On a side note, at least for the half tons, they also sent out a flash update for dealers to further detune the engine to help with transmission worries. Didn't do too much, but removed timing further during shifts. Probably learned that from Ford.

I may be overlooking something significant in all this too- in more modern vehicles where the ECU controls the timing itself, it uses crank position sensors, TPS, camshaft sensors, etc. If Dodge had that type of system for the Magnum ECU, me simply adjusting the distributer to alter timing could make the whole thing go haywire without a tuner. I know people used to try that sort of thing on mid 90's Ford trucks, and found out the hard way that Ford added timing, having multiple timing tables in the ECU, based on TPS and engine RPM. So someone would set initial timing on their 5.0 truck they modded, and go do a burnout and detonate the engine once RPM hit 3 grand as the ECU added a few more degrees on top.

I guess that is what I am wondering from the crowd on B-bodies, if anyone has messed with this stuff before and could explain how "smart" the ECU is. In 98 it isn't smart enough to know the cat is missing, but it may be smart enough to know I dorked around with timing, OR it might be stupid enough that it won't know anything at all and do like Ford and add more on top at a certain RPM. I don't want to damage anything, so I am trying to find out.

 

[YY1]

I have not messed with the timing on mine.
The ECU is apparently not smart enough to reduce the timing at WOT on mine to reduce the pinging.
It still pulls hard despite the pinging, and will keep spinning the tires if they have broken loose ;)

Mine runs as smoothly and with as much power with 177,000 on the clock as it did with 31,000 when I bought it.

I have never had trans issues except after about 125,000 it developed a delayed 2-3 shift condition only when cold. I haven't messed with that at all, and simply let off the gas if necessary to facilitate a shift at the proper speed. It usually clears up after about a mile or two.

I've been through two MAP/MAF sensor issues that cause the cruise control to fluctuate around the 60 MPH speed area (go figure, the most common speed I use it for) but otherwise have little to no effect.

I've never put anything through the gas tank but gas....except for one bottle of sta-bil a few years ago.