Max fuel pressure for Carter 3705 carbs?

[Ceedawg]

This is where the oil sits in the valve cover. Valve cover gasket is not leaking, new exhaust manifold gaskets from mancini racing

View attachment 1327520

Is the engine raised higher in the front? After the heads get back swap them side to side then see if #1 gets the oil or if it does the same wicking on #8.
Wonder why #7 isn’t doing the same thing?

 

[fmahannah]

Yes it sits higher in front. I did not know they could be swapped side to side?

Machine shop just called and heads are done. They did not find a cause for my oil issue in the heads. Here is what they did:

Checked guides, all in spec
Machined exhaust guides for positive seals
Valve job
Checked for cracks
Took off .008 to get flat

They say it seems lke something with oil control rings in #8. Compression was perfect wet and dry so it has to be oil rings. Before I pull the motor I am going to try snake oil methods in #8 to see if they are just stuck and try to free them up. Like hot marvel mystery oil while rocking engine to move piston up and down. Any recommendations? I guess I can't pop the piston with the engine in the car as no clearance to pull the pan? Last resort will be to go ahead and pull it, but every time I pull a motor I end up with a car I can't drive for at least 6-8 months for some reason

 

[4406bbl]

Ya we have all been there with pulling the motor, but I think it might be the answer based on what the machine shop said.

 

[fmahannah]

Is the engine raised higher in the front? After the heads get back swap them side to side then see if #1 gets the oil or if it does the same wicking on #8.
Wonder why #7 isn’t doing the same thing?

I don't think I can swap these heads side to side. One head is stamped left and one is stamped right. Would have been a good test though to see if it was the rings or the head

 

[Ceedawg]

I don't think I can swap these heads side to side. One head is stamped left and one is stamped right. Would have been a good test though to see if it was the rings or the head

Chrysler only made one head to use on both sides, can’t see how it would be milled differently. Was there any pooling on #7? You can check for level (left to right) by laying a level on the Id pad up front

 

[fmahannah]

Nothing on number 7

 

[4406bbl]

You probably can swap the heads, it just will not be perfect. Every engine I build gets the heads put on a bare block, milling and intake fit corrected, mark them left and right, then I scratch the cylinders on the head from the oil pan area and get the valve job and porting done from there. So the heads will swap, just might not be perfect.

 

[4406bbl]

The only way I could see enough oil in the valve covers to flood over the guides is if someone grooved the #4 journal on the cam and did not put a .040-.060 restrictor in the block to the heads, or the pushrods are hollow with lifters that will oil thru them.

 

[fmahannah]

The machine shop took .008 off the heads to surface them. Am I going to have to do anything special with gaskets because of this? Thanks!

 

[Geoff 2]

Not with 0.008"...

 

[fmahannah]

Not with 0.008"...

OK thanks. I didn't think so but wanted to be sure.

 

[Gunner1]

Smoke like that I would think you would see it, and not need to run it. Do the inspection of intake, and a valve cover off and inspect.

I was a automachinest for a lot of years. I saw instances of those umbrella seals which were not specific ones to the head act as pumps. How this happens is there are lots of seals. Some shops buy a generic one for say a 3/8 stem and another for a 5/16. Now they can service 2 stem sizes with only 2 seal part numbers. Instead of one for mopar and one for a big Chevy or a 460 ford. Saves money on inventory. Anyway sometimes a seal gets used thats a bit too long. Fine when it’s seated but when the valve reaches full lift the top is trapped by the retainer and the bottom hits the spring seat and balloons out creating pressure which presses the Trapped oil down the stem. At idle it is a small amount. But at speed it is pumping 1500 times a minute at 3000 rpm In a valve cover that is now filled much higher with oil. The fix was always to cut the guide for positives or use the right umbrella seal. Just spit balling here.
bob

 

[fmahannah]

I was a automachinest for a lot of years. I saw instances of those umbrella seals which were not specific ones to the head act as pumps. How this happens is there are lots of seals. Some shops buy a generic one for say a 3/8 stem and another for a 5/16. Now they can service 2 stem sizes with only 2 seal part numbers. Instead of one for mopar and one for a big Chevy or a 460 ford. Saves money on inventory. Anyway sometimes a seal gets used thats a bit too long. Fine when it’s seated but when the valve reaches full lift the top is trapped by the retainer and the bottom hits the spring seat and balloons out creating pressure which presses the Trapped oil down the stem. At idle it is a small amount. But at speed it is pumping 1500 times a minute at 3000 rpm In a valve cover that is now filled much higher with oil. The fix was always to cut the guide for positives or use the right umbrella seal. Just spit balling here.
bob

Thanks. They did cut the exhausts for positives, intakes already were. Hope to get it all back together this weekend to see if the issue is resolved

 

[Ceedawg]

Why the word ‘positive’ it’s called ‘perfect circle‘ seals from day one. About as bad as ‘tranny’ ‘vert’ and ‘dizzy’

 

[fmahannah]

UPDATE .... probem finally solved, and some embarrassment. OK so after changing rings, having heads done, positive intake and exhaust seals, and on and on I got the engine back together. And I still had the same exhaust smoke issues at all speeds as before I started.

10 minutes on the phone with Kent Ford of Kent Ford Racing Systems in Dahlonega GA solved my problem. I was going to take the carbs to him for a rebuild and tune but he was going away for a week but listened as I gave hime the symptoms. The main symptom that led to the fix was when I told him that it does not smoke until it reaches operating temperature. He asked me if I had checked spark and I said yes. Then he said he had seen one other car with similar behavior and the cause was a bad coil! Then I realized that when I had checked spark the engine was cold. And it clicked. I remembered back when I worked on outboards and we would have them run fine until they warmed up then run horribly or die completely (usually die completely until they cooled down). It was always a bad ignition coil affected by heat. He said that on the one car he saw this before the spark loss once warmed up would cause fuel not to burn and run very rich. In my case rich enough to cause smoke. I pulled the MSD Blaster 2 from the Polara and replaced it with a similar pertronix one from my Javelin and after a couple idle adjustments bingo no exhaust smoke at all even fully warmed up.

So my real problem was a bad MSD coil, and all my other efforts could have been prevented had I tested spark when hot. Lesson learned. But at least now I know where everything inside the motor stands LOL. I guess normally a bad coil causes very rough running and missing, but in this case the car ran very smooth at all speeds but puked fuel out the exhaust. Learned something new the hard way ... it seems it was not brning oil after all and runs good now. Once I get timing set I will post a video of it running.

Thanks for all the efforts to help me with this car!

 

[Dragon Slayer]

Thanks for the update.

 

[Geoff 2]

Have you tried a new coil yet? Having a hard time believing that an engine runs smoothly, but a bad coil causes exh smoke....
If the fix is that simple, then I am happy for you..

 

[fmahannah]

Have you tried a new coil yet? Having a hard time believing that an engine runs smoothly, but a bad coil causes exh smoke....
If the fix is that simple, then I am happy for you..

A new coil eliminated the problem. Every other mechanic I have talked to said it should have run rough, but it did not. It did hesitate on acceleration and lacked any power though which acted like flooding to me

 

[Ceedawg]

A new coil eliminated the problem. Every other mechanic I have talked to said it should have run rough, but it did not. It did hesitate on acceleration and lacked any power though which acted like flooding to me

That’s my thought too, a dog with a bad coil. Better hold on now!

 

[fmahannah]

Still tweaking timing and idle adjustments, but here is how it looks with no more smoke like previous videos I posted.