Max Performance Mufflers?

[ohiokm]

I've done some searches on here and haven't located any info on Max HP mufflers. Looking for some input and experience with 3" & 3.5" mufflers in a max performance application...let's say 11 secs and faster and 600hp and above engines .

 

[ksurfer2]

Check some of the past episodes of Engine Masters. They have done a couple of muffler shootouts.

 

[33 IMP]

I have a system I made from some mandrel bends, some lengths of straight pipe, and a pair of Flowmaster 50 series big block mufflers, all 3 1/2. All the way to the back bumper. I think I had $600 in parts in it, probably double that to duplicate now (the mufflers were around $100 then, $225 now each) I love the sound, probably too big for the current engine, I doubt I'm losing power thru the mufflers, but I never take them off, so I don't know. If the car picks up, it will probably be more from removing about 80lbs of exhaust. This is on an eleven second car.
For the other car, also with a 3 1/2 collector, I bought the cheapest non-bullet style 3 1/2 muffler I could find, a hooker Aero chamber, and put together some scrap tubing left over from the first set, added some turndowns in front of the axle and sent it.
I didn't like the Aero sound at first, but came to like it as well as the flowmasters. The aeros were $50 when I bought them, over a hundred each, now. These were used on a nine second small block car that always ran with the mufflers on.

 

[rumblefish360]

The one you can see straight through and without any bends in the pipe within the muffler.

 

[IQ52]

DynoMax Bullets with a full length exhaust. But you better like noise.

 

[Budnicks]

Check some of the past episodes of Engine Masters. They have done a couple of muffler shootouts.

yep very well done tests too

several renditions 2 from 1st season
even the type & size of pipes
& a couple in seasons 5/6 now

the lasted turbo'd version was an eye-opener,
no back pressure is tolerated

they even did tests for 1000hp

most except the mufflers that make an S thru the cases
(like Turbo Thrush were horrid/HP killers)
are within a few HP of each other

anything with less than 2psi of backpressure is optimal
you may get a couple HP advantage in either direction
not worth worrying about, it's nominal

A few of the Flowmaster cheap knock-off didn't do so well

I've never had any problems with real Flowmasters,
I always run a H-pipe too
my current car 68 RR has the Delta Flow Series 50, Muscle Car system
(biggest downfall is they are heavy & big) my combo made 590rwhp
with a 3" mandrel-bent tubes header back, all the way out the back
I love the sound, even if it's 10hp different from the "best flowing"
I'll keep my Flowmasters, I don't like the sounds of the others...

when I had/did my last heads ported
(Eddy RPM 84cc chambers, IIRC 330cfm/240cc (?) intake & 245cfm/90cc (?) exhaust @ 0.600" gvl)
we put a header & 1 side of the exhaust thru the mufflers & tailpipe
after the head off the flow-bench
just for shits & giggles & it didn't lose any real flow,
it was nominal like the difference between each test (5-7 cfm)
even at 0.700" gross valve-lift thru a 3" system (Flowmasters Delta 50s)
literally lil' to no difference than just the open header

the biggest downfall is 'the added weight of the exhaust & mufflers'
effected overall performance

Where you put them, may have more effect on flow
farther down the line, the less overall flow was effected
probably a temperature & dead air deal,
(depending on what & how many bends)
sort of like adding a header extension,
anything longer than the optimum length after the headers
of your engine specific needs,
getting longer has diminishing returns, just like the exhaust

anything you can see thru should be less restrictive
especially for an 'all-out no holds barred race application'
they will also be louder

Some sanctioning bodies & tracks (or their insurance/use permits)
require exhaust now too
if you're not in an upper/heads up class, or quicker than 9.99
(or something along those lines)

 

[Fizz66Coronet]

I have over 600hp and 3 inch Dynomax super turbos running low 11's. I think they sound great.

 

[33 IMP]

Just reviewed the engine masters 1000hp muffler test.
They tested three straight thru 4 inch in/out and a Flowmaster, on a 1000hp blown 555 Chevy. Borla, magnaflow, hooker max flow, and Flowmaster. The Flowmaster was way quieter than the straight through, and cost less than ten hp. The hooker max flow was the clear winner of the test! They were the cheapest, made MORE power than open headers (and the other mufflers), and were the quietest of the straight throughs.

 

[rumblefish360]

Budnicks, excellent post. Big thumbs up my man.
I’d like to add a tid bit. Once the optimum pipe length has been dyno tested (or track tested if you can get away with open headers….) David Vizard suggests for a full exhaust, if needed… a sound pressure wave cancellation box. For those that don’t know, this is to simulate the open air end of the header extension pipe. At the end of the box, which should be tear drop shaped, continue the exhaust after that. How far you go is your call. Just to the axle or all the way to the bumper. The exhaust pipe should be ample for the power of the engine. According to David, this can produce a zero loss hp loss or darn close to it system. He also suggests that the muffler be the next size up from the exhaust pipe being used. I thought that was weird.

I have found this advice to be solid.

Most of the time when people ask me what kind of exhaust they should do, I say it depends on how serious you are about making power or just go with what you think sounds cool, just add an X or H pipe to it. The exhaust note is a very person sound. What ever your ears like.

yep very well done tests too

several renditions 2 from 1st season
even the type & size of pipes
& a couple in seasons 5/6 now

the lasted turbo'd version was an eye-opener,
no back pressure is tolerated

they even did tests for 1000hp

most except the mufflers that make an S thru the cases
(like Turbo Thrush were horrid/HP killers)
are within a few HP of each other

anything with less than 2psi of backpressure is optimal
you may get a couple HP advantage in either direction
not worth worrying about, it's nominal

A few of the Flowmaster cheap knock-off didn't do so well

I've never had any problems with real Flowmasters,
I always run a H-pipe too
my current car 68 RR has the Delta Flow Series 50, Muscle Car system
(biggest downfall is they are heavy & big) my combo made 590rwhp
with a 3" mandrel-bent tubes header back, all the way out the back
I love the sound, even if it's 10hp different from the "best flowing"
I'll keep my Flowmasters, I don't like the sounds of the others...

when I had/did my last heads ported
(Eddy RPM 84cc chambers, IIRC 330cfm/240cc (?) intake & 245cfm/90cc (?) exhaust @ 0.600" gvl)
we put a header & 1 side of the exhaust thru the mufflers & tailpipe
after the head off the flow-bench
just for shits & giggles & it didn't lose any real flow,
it was nominal like the difference between each test (5-7 cfm)
even at 0.700" gross valve-lift thru a 3" system (Flowmasters Delta 50s)
literally lil' to no difference than just the open header

the biggest downfall is 'the added weight of the exhaust & mufflers'
effected overall performance

Where you put them, may have more effect on flow
farther down the line, the less overall flow was effected
probably a temperature & dead air deal,
(depending on what & how many bends)
sort of like adding a header extension,
anything longer than the optimum length after the headers
of your engine specific needs,
getting longer has diminishing returns, just like the exhaust

anything you can see thru should be less restrictive
especially for an 'all-out no holds barred race application'
they will also be louder

Some sanctioning bodies & tracks (or their insurance/use permits)
require exhaust now too
if you're not in an upper/heads up class, or quicker than 9.99
(or something along those lines)

 

[dvw]

My street car runs 11.0's. Has had both 3" Flowmaster and now 3" Ultra Flow's. Removing the Flowmaster's picked the car up .05. That system with tailpipes weighed 70lbs. So really the improvement was do to the weight removal.
Doug

 

[biomedtechguy]

One "note" on the Hooker AeroFlow.
I had one on my 3" no cat single exhaust coming off the factory small turbo on my 89 Conquest TSi 2.6L 4.
It was without a doubt THE best sounding 4 cylinder turbo exhaust with a muffler. No, like ZERO "brap" unlike those puke worthy "fart cans".
Nice DEEP rumble.

 

[mmissile]

The exhaust on my silver car was cut-outs after the collectors. We ran 3 1/2" pipe from the side of dumps, back to 3 1/2" bullets at the upkick before the axle. We exited the bullets with 3" and put magnaflow straight-thru ovals with turndowns at the bumper. It was extremely quiet, and the car felt the same....just very quiet. Once the exhaust gets that far back and cools, it contracts in volume.

 

[Dodge 330]

We run the 3" Dynomax Ultraflows. Very happy with them. They were on for the 10.0@133mph pass.

 

[Budnicks]

Pro-Series 4" (or 5") Flowmasters are some of the best,
But they are loud too, straight thru muffler
available in 3"- 3", 3"- 3.5", 4"- 4" & 5"- 5" inlet/outlets
something like 12" long to something like 24"- 28" long housings/tips

if it's really an 'all out' deal, not a dual purpose

4" below (or the 5")
it's 24" (or like 28") overall length
I assume this is 'the tip to tip' inlet/outlets

 

[ohiokm]

Truly appreciate ALL the input / responses!


Kirk

 

[33 IMP]

The trick is finding a muffler that actually quiets the exhaust without killing power. There are lots of quiet mufflers, and a few that don't kill power.
My solution is: get the right size through pipe for your application, and then get the biggest, longest case you can get under the car. A big case gives the sound someplace to go, and the big pipe doesn't restrict hp.

 

[ohiokm]

These are definitely Trick and Light Weight

 

[ohiokm]

All Aluminum Exhaust Systems

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I have the hooker aero mufflers with an X pipe.Tip the scales at 3700# and been 9.3X @ 147. I love the sound!

 

[383man]

3" Dyno-Max Ultra-Flows for me with a full exh on the car. I always race through the full exh as I have never uncapped it. Flow Masters slowed my sons car down almost 2 tenths compared to spaced headers. Ron