Messed with timing, now car won't start.

[racedodge]

If your not sure about top dead center on compression stroke take off your valve cover. On the compression stroke both valves will be closed on #1. On the exhaust stroke both valves will be open on #1. The piston will be at tdc when the VALVES ARE FULLY SEATED ( THE ROCKER ARMS MAY HAVE A LITTLE WIGGLE TO THEM AT THIS TIME BECAUSE THERE UNLOADED)..

I agree with this except that on the exhaust stroke, only the exhaust valve is open.

 

[dave5237]

I agree with this except that on the exhaust stroke, only the exhaust valve is open.

Your right. I forgot a section. I was reading and typing at the same time and forgot a small section. Thanks.

 

[john.thompson068]

I think with that compression tool you have done everything correct, except you now have to unscrew the tool and turn the motor in reverse until the piston is coming back up to the compression stroke. Screw the tool back in and continue turning until it stops again(with the excact same amount of threads in the hole). Put another mark on the balancer and the exact center between the two marks is TDC.

Thanks everyone, especially hunt2elk.


That is the post that saved the day. Never mind my confusion earlier. I think I was still thinking about the process the way I was thinking about it last night when I read a post that made it sound like you find tdc on the compression stroke and then on the exhaust stroke and then take the half way point. Or maybe it was just me being tired.

Anyway. I found exact top center using my tool. I actually bent the bolt that came with the tool. Then I replaced it with a bolt that had a regular head. Mark two sides of the the bolt head with a sharpie so that you can turn it out in half turn increments. If you buy this tool, immediately replace the bolt it comes with and use the tool as follows. First watch the distributor button to approach the position of the number one terminal. This way you know you are on the compression stroke. Insert the tool and screw it in all the way. Gently turn the motor over one ratch click at a time while feeling the bolt head for any movement. Once you turn the motor a click of the ratchet and cannot wiggle the bolt you are making contact. You will need to back the piston down a couple cm's before you can adjust the bolt. Now back the bolt out in half turn increments and repeat the process over and over again until the piston finally passes. Then screw back in half a turn and bring piston back up till it makes contact with the bolt. Make a mark on the balancer with a sharpie. Now back the bolt out. Turn the motor the opposite direction, thank you Hunt, until the rotor cap is almost back to the number one terminal. Screw the bolt back in and repeat the process again. Make a mark on the balancer. Then use the middle point of those two marks. As it turns out, my balancer is still perfectly aligned with the zero timing mark for TDC so all I had to do was make a sharpie mark across the line for 0. This is best done with a piece of electrical tape to use as a guide. Rotate the motor till the 0 mark on the balancer lines up with the hole in the timing tab, then set the distributor to zero degrees by aligning the pickup coil with the nearest paddle on the reluctor wheel. Install plug wires and advance distributor by rotating housing clockwise. I had to rotate my housing approximately 1/2 inch before the car would run. I set my timing to 13 degrees and she runs perfectly.

 

[hunt2elk]

Glad you got it figured out john. You ended up explaining the process better than I could. I remember bending the center bolt on my tool also.

 

[green1]

You are not at TDC. Bring the piston up clockwise( with no degree wheel) mark the balancer. Now, cc until it stops again. Halfway between that is TDC.

 

[moparnutt]

I was just curious as to why you didn't put a light on it to start with and check the timing. If the numbers are good and it's running like it should, why bother. "If it's not broke don't fix it" Oh buy the way, that bolt on that tool is relatively soft for a reason, so you don't damage the top of the piston and setup a hot spot. Also you had rather the bolt to bend rather than the housing crack and fall into the chamber. You have to have a soft touch when using this tool, or anything that protrudes into the interference area.

 

[nm9stheham]

To be sure, I would have both valve covers off and check to see that the #1 cylinder valves are both fully closed AND that the number 6 cylinder valves are equally open; the #6 valves should be at the overlap at the top of the exhaust stroke when the #1 is at compression stoke TDC. Turning the crank back and forth around that point should show the #6 valves opeing and closing.

And the idea set out above of finding 2 marks on the crank pulley/balancer with the tool for opposite rotations of the crank around TDC is right; the proper point is around halfway between the 2. If you insert the tool as little as possible, the marks will be closer and the error should be smaller.

The other thing that is not clear to me from your description is if you have the rotor button in the distributor truly indexed in the right direction. Your described engine symptoms can be caused by the rotor being off-indexed and the spark going to the wrong plugs part or all of the time.

I would NOT use starter fluid until the timing was right. Starter fluid can cause some pretty violent combustion and with the cylinders misfiring, which is evidenced by the backfires and carb fire, then you could really do some damage.

Edit to add: Never mind; I see the problem was solved!