Motor decision (383 vs 440)

[65 Coronet]

Looking to get to 500 HP, and I'm looking for ideas as whether to keep the stock-ish 383 (HP) motor currently in the car and bebuild it, or move to a 440.

My thoughts are to go with the 440 build it as I am still able to drive the car with the 383 in it.

I'm kind of new at this as I spent over 20 years in the Navy and really didn't have the time to do this...I have time now, so here I go. I have family resources; however, I want to get some input here.

Any kind of input/help would be greatly appreciated.

If I went with the 440 build, I have a couple of questions:

1. Are Indy Racing Heads the best way to go?
2. Is a stroker kit recommended or needed to get the 500 HP I want?
3. What would be the best cam to go with?

Thanks in advance.

 

[wedgie]

Call Muscle Motors in Lansing Michigan. They can build a mild stroker that will meet your horsepower expectations and be as streetable as a Cadillac.

 

[Propwash]

440...No replacement for Displacement! Easier to reach your goal right off the bat.

No need for the pricey Indy heads for 500HP, if you don't want. Aluminum Stealth heads or Eddy RPM Performers will get you there no problem, 1/2 the cost. Ported decent stock heads could as well.

You can make 500HP without building a stroker, and paying $2000-$3000 for a rotating assembly.

Cam, depends on your driving environment (where will the car spend most it's time). Do you have power brakes? Bigger cams kill vacuum, so that's something to keep in mind. From what i've seen from builds here and other places, the solid cams seem to do the best job for their profile, making power.


Just my 2 cents

 

[Badvert65]

Just from my experience, I would use the 440 to start. I have a 65 Fury that had a 383. I was running solid mid 14 sec 1/4 mile and changed to a 440. I swapped the heads, cam, and carb from the 383. No other changes and I was running mid 13's. There is no substitute for cubic inches. 500 HP is doable without stroking it but it is a faster way to get there.

 

[65 Coronet]

Thanks for the info. I'm definitely leaning towards the 440 build. So Aluminum Stealth or Eddy RPM Performers will match up well? What about clearance issues? How much machine work would need to be done? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to learn from the research I've done, and what I've read on the forums here.

Car will primarily be street driven, but I want it to "sh$t and get" if you know what I mean. No power brakes currently.

Current 383 is more of a stock set-up, with close chambered heads, M1 intake, a mild Crower Cam, and a 750 Quick-Fuel carb.

Thanks for the info!

440...No replacement for Displacement! Easier to reach your goal right off the bat.

No need for the pricey Indy heads for 500HP, if you don't want. Aluminum Stealth heads or Eddy RPM Performers will get you there no problem, 1/2 the cost. Ported decent stock heads could as well.

You can make 500HP without building a stroker, and paying $2000-$3000 for a rotating assembly.

Cam, depends on your driving environment (where will the car spend most it's time). Do you have power brakes? Bigger cams kill vacuum, so that's something to keep in mind. From what i've seen from builds here and other places, the solid cams seem to do the best job for their profile, making power.

Thanks for the info. What heads are you using, and what size carb? On my 383, I'm using a Quick Fuel 750.

Just from my experience, I would use the 440 to start. I have a 65 Fury that had a 383. I was running solid mid 14 sec 1/4 mile and changed to a 440. I swapped the heads, cam, and carb from the 383. No other changes and I was running mid 13's. There is no substitute for cubic inches. 500 HP is doable without stroking it but it is a faster way to get there.

 

[Cranky]

I like short stroke engines especially if the car isn't a pig but if you're going to stroke it, I'd go with a build based on the 400 block. It has a larger bore than the 440 and you can machine a 440 crank to fit and end up with a 451. With the RPM heads, and the right cam etc, 500 hp is easy. Do some research why a large bore is better vs a smaller bore. The 451 is a common build that really works well plus the 400 block is shorter than the 440 and makes more room for headers plus a shorter cylinder is usually more ridged. Thrown in a hard block 1/2 fill and you got a very good base to work from.

 

[Grabinov911]

Hey 65 I went through the SAME thing! Eventually ended up with a 440 that I spent most of a year building - because the build was a project in itself, in a good way. Kept the car running with the stock 383 the whole time. The car was without engine for 2 days! Look for my Road Racing Engine post, and Propwash has a "build post" on here as well which lists exact specs.

As the guys have said, you can make 500hp at the crank with almost no work with a 440. In the day, one horsepower per cubic inch was barely breathing hard, so 500hp from 440cu in isn't far to go.

That said, my 383 is now just sitting there in my garage - forever, unless some eventual buyer wants to put the car back to matching numbers. If your car isn't matching numbers, toss that 383 and build a 440. If it is, and you want to keep it that way for "someday", build your 383 rather than pushing it into a corner forever. I drove a car recently with a 4 speed and a built 383 and it SCREAMED! Seems like it revs faster than the 440, and sounds COOL! Your car is NOT going to be slow just because you used the 383.

You won't be sorry for calling Muscle Motors, even if you don't buy an engine from them. And make SURE the block you are starting from is solid and not damaged, whether your current 383 or a "new" 440. Thinking you're about to start your build only to discover the block is bad is a bummer. Getting into the build and THEN discovering it is a disaster...

 

[65 Coronet]

Great info, and I have no plan of getting rid of the 383 once I pull it. I will definitely look for your "Road Racing Engine post".

I figured the 383 could be built to obtain that kind of horsepower; however, like you I thought it would be nice project for me to do with the 440 and take a couple of years to do it and still be able to drive the car as it currently is. I personally couldn't imagine not driving the car for a year while rebuilding the motor...but that's me. Thanks again.

Hey 65 I went through the SAME thing! Eventually ended up with a 440 that I spent most of a year building - because the build was a project in itself, in a good way. Kept the car running with the stock 383 the whole time. The car was without engine for 2 days! Look for my Road Racing Engine post, and Propwash has a "build post" on here as well which lists exact specs.

As the guys have said, you can make 500hp at the crank with almost no work with a 440. In the day, one horsepower per cubic inch was barely breathing hard, so 500hp from 440cu in isn't far to go.

That said, my 383 is now just sitting there in my garage - forever, unless some eventual buyer wants to put the car back to matching numbers. If your car isn't matching numbers, toss that 383 and build a 440. If it is, and you want to keep it that way for "someday", build your 383 rather than pushing it into a corner forever. I drove a car recently with a 4 speed and a built 383 and it SCREAMED! Seems like it revs faster than the 440, and sounds COOL! Your car is NOT going to be slow just because you used the 383.

You won't be sorry for calling Muscle Motors, even if you don't buy an engine from them. And make SURE the block you are starting from is solid and not damaged, whether your current 383 or a "new" 440. Thinking you're about to start your build only to discover the block is bad is a bummer. Getting into the build and THEN discovering it is a disaster...

 

[super-bee_ski]

440

 

[HT413]

500hp is just a number. I bet ported alum heads and cam get you there for 1/3 the cost of a complete stroker.

 

[Cranky]

Hey 65 I went through the SAME thing! Eventually ended up with a 440 that I spent most of a year building - because the build was a project in itself, in a good way. Kept the car running with the stock 383 the whole time. The car was without engine for 2 days! Look for my Road Racing Engine post, and Propwash has a "build post" on here as well which lists exact specs.

As the guys have said, you can make 500hp at the crank with almost no work with a 440. In the day, one horsepower per cubic inch was barely breathing hard, so 500hp from 440cu in isn't far to go.

That said, my 383 is now just sitting there in my garage - forever, unless some eventual buyer wants to put the car back to matching numbers. If your car isn't matching numbers, toss that 383 and build a 440. If it is, and you want to keep it that way for "someday", build your 383 rather than pushing it into a corner forever. I drove a car recently with a 4 speed and a built 383 and it SCREAMED! Seems like it revs faster than the 440, and sounds COOL! Your car is NOT going to be slow just because you used the 383.

You won't be sorry for calling Muscle Motors, even if you don't buy an engine from them. And make SURE the block you are starting from is solid and not damaged, whether your current 383 or a "new" 440. Thinking you're about to start your build only to discover the block is bad is a bummer. Getting into the build and THEN discovering it is a disaster...

Yup, a 383 can scream. If you like short stroke engines and don't want to go with a small block, a 383 can really do the job too. There are a LOT of little engines racing in Comp Eliminator that are knocking down great numbers. Even some small engines are in some Super Stock classes. For example, a buddy ran a 56 Chevy in SS/O that ran a 265 and ran in the low 11's and this was back in the late 70's and early 80's and that shoe box wasn't exactly a lightweight either.

 

[Banzaiii67]

65 coronet, what is the RPM range you want to feel all the power? Also a major consideration is weather you have or going with a 727 or a manual.

Low End/Torque monster = 440

High RPM/Manual = Low Deck Stroker or 383

 

[65 Coronet]

Really didn't think about what the RPM range I wanted to be at, so that is something to definitely consider moving forward.

Going to keep the original A-833 manual transmission; however, I have been told the flange-style output won't hold up to the HP I want and will need to go to a slip-yoke. Has anyone else had that problem with the flange-style?

65 coronet, what is the RPM range you want to feel all the power? Also a major consideration is weather you have or going with a 727 or a manual.

Low End/Torque monster = 440

High RPM/Manual = Low Deck Stroker or 383

 

[Propwash]

Thanks for the info. What heads are you using, and what size carb? On my 383, I'm using a Quick Fuel 750.

No sweat. I'm running a Quickfuel Q950 w/ ported Eddy Performer RPM heads, on a 512 stroker. 632HP/696TQ

 

[Mr Belvedere 30144]

440 all the way. My 65 loves the 440

 

[65 Coronet]

Now that's some nice HP...don't know if my Coronet could handle that...it might twist in two.

No sweat. I'm running a Quickfuel Q950 w/ ported Eddy Performer RPM heads, on a 512 stroker. 632HP/696TQ

 

[Badvert65]

I was running a 750 Holley on an Edelbrock (?)TM7 single plane intake with big valve 952 heads and lots of porting. The Holley has been worked over as well. Cam is an old Crane "Blazer" cam and I can't recall the specs at the moment. 440 is definitely the way to go.

 

[Plumcrazybee]

That advice from Banzaiii(and it was really just a question, but a great one) is in my opinion the only advice you should run with right away. Where will your engine live? Street? Strip? Little of both? If so, how little is the little bit of racing? Every Friday night like a bracket car? Or once or twice in the summer? Once or twice a year at a drag strip is way more often than most muscle cars will ever see. So keep your use in mind when you start gathering parts for your engine. Build it to focus on where it will be 90% of the time(if you know).

I think your plan of building a 440 is a very good one. It allows you to keep driving your car, so you will not get frustrated because you don't have a running car. It also will allow you to directly compare what you have, versus what you had, after the engine swap. There is that old saying about no replacement for displacement. I don't think it is accurate though, because cubic $$ can and do regularly replace cubic inches. Another way to look at it would be, you can more easily, and with a smaller budget, reach your power goal with a larger engine. Do you have cubic $$ ? Speaking for myself, I do not. So even if my 383 in my Super Bee was not numbers matching, I still would have pulled it out eventually and replaced it with a 440.

Best of luck on your car! Hope it turns out even better than you imagined.

 

[Grabinov911]

cubic $$ can and do regularly replace cubic inches...

Bahahahaha! That's Funny! Formula One...

I'm writing that down so I can remember to say it to someone some day.

 

[Propwash]

Now that's some nice HP...don't know if my Coronet could handle that...it might twist in two.

Oh I'm sure your '65 Dodge could handle it just fine, with some upgrades/additions here and there......