Gary P
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HahahahahaYes.
...but we all are. That's why we are here...
My 1978 Dodge Monaco 4 door sedan.
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Gary P
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Hello guys!
Hope you are all safe and well. Not much has been happening on the car recently, although I seem to have been really stressed about it. But any progress is good progress, right?
I came home the other day to this...
...which despite 12 years here in Utah, I never fail to become miserable about when it finally happens.
Some stars aligned and I sold my '66 Bug project to one of my dear friends, which made less stress and more room for me, so I had a good-ol tidy-up and made space for the Monaco inside out of the cold...
I had to wait for the Mrs to help me push the 4000lb sedan slightly uphill into the garage - there's only so much an ageing fatty can do alone hahahaha.
It was a whirlwind week, Adam sent me some pictures of the carb rebuild...
This is really exciting to me. But then the major issue of the missing choke plate...yup, the choke plate was gone! GONE!!! Oh noooooo!!!
That piece right there ^^^^^
This was a disaster. I reached out to a couple of super awesome FBBO members, and eventually coming through for me again was @HawkRod...
Within a few days the part arrived and for this I am so grateful
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to take a moment to mention @HawkRod @Greg Ducato and @Kern Dog for you guys' help with parts and shipping for this ol '78 Monaco - thank you fella's, your kindness and willingness to help out a fellow enthusiast will never go un-noticed. You are legends.
Also while I'm at it, thank you to all of you following this little thread, your input, advice, and tech knowhow is invaluable. Thank you all !!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope you are all safe and well. Not much has been happening on the car recently, although I seem to have been really stressed about it. But any progress is good progress, right?
I came home the other day to this...
...which despite 12 years here in Utah, I never fail to become miserable about when it finally happens.
Some stars aligned and I sold my '66 Bug project to one of my dear friends, which made less stress and more room for me, so I had a good-ol tidy-up and made space for the Monaco inside out of the cold...
I had to wait for the Mrs to help me push the 4000lb sedan slightly uphill into the garage - there's only so much an ageing fatty can do alone hahahaha.
It was a whirlwind week, Adam sent me some pictures of the carb rebuild...
This is really exciting to me. But then the major issue of the missing choke plate...yup, the choke plate was gone! GONE!!! Oh noooooo!!!
That piece right there ^^^^^
This was a disaster. I reached out to a couple of super awesome FBBO members, and eventually coming through for me again was @HawkRod...
Within a few days the part arrived and for this I am so grateful
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to take a moment to mention @HawkRod @Greg Ducato and @Kern Dog for you guys' help with parts and shipping for this ol '78 Monaco - thank you fella's, your kindness and willingness to help out a fellow enthusiast will never go un-noticed. You are legends.
Also while I'm at it, thank you to all of you following this little thread, your input, advice, and tech knowhow is invaluable. Thank you all !!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary P
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I was hoping for the carb to be installed, and to get down to figuring out the linkages and stuff, today Sat 12th Nov, but alas that day came and went. So now the car is snug inside the garage, I firstly gave the air cleaner courtesy of @HawkRod a good clean and polish
Then just to keep busy I started cleaning up the engine compartment starting with the radiator support - it really looks awful with surface rust, so I began grinding that back
But firstly removing the tag and cleaning it up
Question - is there somewhere that I can punch these digits in to show me what it all means? (there's a vin decoder site for my old VW's I hoped there would be one for the old Dodges)
That's about it so far fella's - this all started with the Lean Burn removal and of course, with hindsight, I should have taken my own advice and left well-enough alone.
But it's slowly happening. I'm grateful for everything that's happened so far.
More tomorrow.
Then just to keep busy I started cleaning up the engine compartment starting with the radiator support - it really looks awful with surface rust, so I began grinding that back
But firstly removing the tag and cleaning it up
Question - is there somewhere that I can punch these digits in to show me what it all means? (there's a vin decoder site for my old VW's I hoped there would be one for the old Dodges)
That's about it so far fella's - this all started with the Lean Burn removal and of course, with hindsight, I should have taken my own advice and left well-enough alone.
But it's slowly happening. I'm grateful for everything that's happened so far.
More tomorrow.
Gary P
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Hi guys.
Update, and not a very good one. The Thermoquad was finally rebuilt and on Sunday 22nd Nov on it went, but not before having to retap the threads for the fuel inlet.
It ran, eventually, but with Adam operating the choke. A test drive around the block showed that she had a little more power - but certainly not anything that warrants writing home about. It also shifts incorrectly due to the kickdown linkage being unhooked for now. Also, the throttle pedal pressed to the floor now only gives me about 3/4 throttle on the Thermoquad, so I didn't get to hear those secondaries open nor feel the extra punch it might give.
So, the Lokar kickdown cable and throttle linkage combo is on my list of expenses.
Progress though right?
Not really.
Monday evening I went out there to clear up a bit and move the car over slightly. It wouldn't start. No matter what I did. It did, however, spew fuel from pretty much everywhere and fill every surrounding recess with unleaded.
For some reason, the sides of the carb, the top, around the edges and the intake were soaked in fuel. So yeah, that's just great.
I have to custom the bimetallic spring shaft on the choke to work with this TQ.
I have to figure out where this fuel spraying is coming from.
I have to spend more money. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.
And so the car sits.
Update, and not a very good one. The Thermoquad was finally rebuilt and on Sunday 22nd Nov on it went, but not before having to retap the threads for the fuel inlet.
It ran, eventually, but with Adam operating the choke. A test drive around the block showed that she had a little more power - but certainly not anything that warrants writing home about. It also shifts incorrectly due to the kickdown linkage being unhooked for now. Also, the throttle pedal pressed to the floor now only gives me about 3/4 throttle on the Thermoquad, so I didn't get to hear those secondaries open nor feel the extra punch it might give.
So, the Lokar kickdown cable and throttle linkage combo is on my list of expenses.
Progress though right?
Not really.
Monday evening I went out there to clear up a bit and move the car over slightly. It wouldn't start. No matter what I did. It did, however, spew fuel from pretty much everywhere and fill every surrounding recess with unleaded.
For some reason, the sides of the carb, the top, around the edges and the intake were soaked in fuel. So yeah, that's just great.
I have to custom the bimetallic spring shaft on the choke to work with this TQ.
I have to figure out where this fuel spraying is coming from.
I have to spend more money. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.
And so the car sits.
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The Thermoquad will be hard to start without the choke in this well:
You can rotate this bowl vent for clearance to the choke linkage:
This junk can often be removed and blocked off:
A simple flat block off plate of 14 gauge sheet metal can be made fairly easily to eliminate that solenoid that is only used in later models.
I do have several chokes that may work. I'd be glad to look through what I have here. I have a Performer intake like yours and a couple of complete Thermoquads that I can mock up and see what fits and works.
I know the frustrations of working like hell on a project that keeps disappointing you. I'm knee deep in one right now with my Charger:
Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger
Your situation is a much easier fix. I'll be glad to help where I can.
You can rotate this bowl vent for clearance to the choke linkage:
This junk can often be removed and blocked off:
A simple flat block off plate of 14 gauge sheet metal can be made fairly easily to eliminate that solenoid that is only used in later models.
I do have several chokes that may work. I'd be glad to look through what I have here. I have a Performer intake like yours and a couple of complete Thermoquads that I can mock up and see what fits and works.
I know the frustrations of working like hell on a project that keeps disappointing you. I'm knee deep in one right now with my Charger:
Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger
Your situation is a much easier fix. I'll be glad to help where I can.
I agree with what @Kern Dog wrote. In my own way, I'll reiterate the issues:
1) The carb is leaking fuel
2) Shifting wrong due to kickdown linkage unhooked
3) Only 3/4 throttle
4) Need a choke
I wrote those in what I believe to be the order of concern. Let me explain why I wrote them in that order (I might be captain obvious for a couple of these but..)
1) Leaking fuel outside of the carb is obviously a bad thing - easy to start a fire that way. This really needs to be diagnosed and fixed before you do anything else. You said that you had to retap the fuel inlet before installation. One immediate place I would look is the needle and seat that fill the carb when the float is low. If you got debris from the retap in there, it can keep the needle from seating. This means fuel will flow continually into the carb, flooding it. Also, these phenolic bowls are known to crack, and if yours is cracked, you'll need another (I can get you one).
Of course, neither of these might not be it. It could be something as simple as a loose fuel line. With the carb and intake dry, I suggest you have a person crank the engine. While they do that, you check all hoses, connections, etc. to see if you can determine where the fuel is coming from.
2) and 3) I'll lump these together, as they are both linkage related. Bottom line is you don't want to drive your car much at all with the kickdown linkage unhooked - you can quickly damage your transmission. Set the kickdown linkage so at carb full throttle the kickdown is pushed all the way back. This means you need to adjust or fix the throttle cable so you have full throttle.
4) Not having a choke will make the car hard starting in cold weather, so you absolutely want to have one. But once the car is warmed up, it does nothing. So getting a choke, while important for later drivability, is not critical at this point.
I'll see if I can get a couple of pictures of my linkage - maybe that will help as well.
1) The carb is leaking fuel
2) Shifting wrong due to kickdown linkage unhooked
3) Only 3/4 throttle
4) Need a choke
I wrote those in what I believe to be the order of concern. Let me explain why I wrote them in that order (I might be captain obvious for a couple of these but..)
1) Leaking fuel outside of the carb is obviously a bad thing - easy to start a fire that way. This really needs to be diagnosed and fixed before you do anything else. You said that you had to retap the fuel inlet before installation. One immediate place I would look is the needle and seat that fill the carb when the float is low. If you got debris from the retap in there, it can keep the needle from seating. This means fuel will flow continually into the carb, flooding it. Also, these phenolic bowls are known to crack, and if yours is cracked, you'll need another (I can get you one).
Of course, neither of these might not be it. It could be something as simple as a loose fuel line. With the carb and intake dry, I suggest you have a person crank the engine. While they do that, you check all hoses, connections, etc. to see if you can determine where the fuel is coming from.
2) and 3) I'll lump these together, as they are both linkage related. Bottom line is you don't want to drive your car much at all with the kickdown linkage unhooked - you can quickly damage your transmission. Set the kickdown linkage so at carb full throttle the kickdown is pushed all the way back. This means you need to adjust or fix the throttle cable so you have full throttle.
4) Not having a choke will make the car hard starting in cold weather, so you absolutely want to have one. But once the car is warmed up, it does nothing. So getting a choke, while important for later drivability, is not critical at this point.
I'll see if I can get a couple of pictures of my linkage - maybe that will help as well.
Ok, a couple of pictures of my grungy, daily driver 73 Road Runner in case they help:
In this picture I am pointing to the kickdown linkage. To the right of my finger is the adjustment bolt you should use to adjust the kickdown linkage. Note also your linkage may look a bit different, but should operate in approximately the same way.
Here I am pointing to the bracket that holds the throttle cable. Loosen the nut immediately to the right of my finger to pull the cable housing backwards to give you more throttle. (By the way, the kickdown adjustment bolt is shown to the right of the throttle bracket nut)
Here is the choke side. Might be hard to see details since this is a busy area.
Hopefully some of these help.
In this picture I am pointing to the kickdown linkage. To the right of my finger is the adjustment bolt you should use to adjust the kickdown linkage. Note also your linkage may look a bit different, but should operate in approximately the same way.
Here I am pointing to the bracket that holds the throttle cable. Loosen the nut immediately to the right of my finger to pull the cable housing backwards to give you more throttle. (By the way, the kickdown adjustment bolt is shown to the right of the throttle bracket nut)
Here is the choke side. Might be hard to see details since this is a busy area.
Hopefully some of these help.
Don't drive it until you get the kickdown linkage hooked up correctly.
You can destroy the transmission by doing that.
You can destroy the transmission by doing that.
Hand model?
Are you trying to take over from where Waylon Jennings left off....?
Only showing your hands, and not your face on TV.
Gary P
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Ahhhh guys you are the best! Thank you so much for all of this above!
I didn't have much time last night, but with regards to what @HawkRod said about someone cranking it and me checking where it's all squirting from....I remembered I had a melted remote starter (Vice Grip Garage call this the LoneWolf 3000 hahahaha) so I repaired it, and added some aluminum sheath so I don't melt it again...
Tonight, or probably Friday (as I finally have a day off) I'll do some remote starts and get my peepers in there and see where that leak is.
@HawkRod - the float bowls flooding sounds like a logical thing - thanks for your continued help brother.
@Kern Dog - brilliant info as usual thank you sir - I was wondering wtf that front mounted thing was.
@Don Frelier - you got it brother, she ain't going anywhere.
Oh and can I please wish ALL OF YOU a very Happy Thanksgiving. May your day be blessed with tasty brilliance and most importantly, the company of your loved ones.
I didn't have much time last night, but with regards to what @HawkRod said about someone cranking it and me checking where it's all squirting from....I remembered I had a melted remote starter (Vice Grip Garage call this the LoneWolf 3000 hahahaha) so I repaired it, and added some aluminum sheath so I don't melt it again...
Tonight, or probably Friday (as I finally have a day off) I'll do some remote starts and get my peepers in there and see where that leak is.
@HawkRod - the float bowls flooding sounds like a logical thing - thanks for your continued help brother.
@Kern Dog - brilliant info as usual thank you sir - I was wondering wtf that front mounted thing was.
@Don Frelier - you got it brother, she ain't going anywhere.
Oh and can I please wish ALL OF YOU a very Happy Thanksgiving. May your day be blessed with tasty brilliance and most importantly, the company of your loved ones.
Gary P
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Hi guys - hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!
So, I hooked up the Lone Wolf 3000 remote starter and me and the Mrs watched closely to find out where in blazes the fuel was leaking from.
This is what we found...
Yup, pissing right out of the bowl vent tubes.
The very kind @HawkRod called me on the phone - it was great to hear a kind voice and felt great to move past being a cyber friend - spoke a lot of great advice, the first thing to try being whip the top off the carb, check the floats are a) not perished, and b) set correctly, and check for any contaminates that are not allowing the needles to close up, therefor flooding the bowls. Very kind that people from this forum take so much of their time to help others, cheers Hawk!
So tonight, Monday 28th Nov, I braved the heavy snow and low temps, and went into the garage, carefully undoing the eight bolts that hold the carb together, so I could pull the top off.
It was very hard to move. In fact, it didn't move at all. So I had a quick look about to see if there's any other bolts holding the top down. There was not BUT while I was peeking about, I noticed this...
^^^ The brass 90 that pokes through a hole in the needle plate (if that's the correct term) was not in the hole.
The one at the other end was in place though...
So I spent a while getting them both into place. It seemed awfully loose and the brass 90s could easily pop back out, so I gently bent the plate ends a little, which closed the gap and allowed both brass 90s to seat into their hole properly.
Much better! Excellent.
No.
I still could not separate the top of the carb. Is it glued? I don't know. I didn't want to pry on it by any means so I uncoupled the throttle cable and took it off, and over to my bench.
When twirling the carb around on my bench, looking for why I could not separate the top, I noticed some black flakes. Didn't think anything of it at first until I saw this...
A crack in the plastic, and the black flakes must be it breaking down and crumbling apart. I put barely enough force on the top plate to really see how stuck it all was, so I'm guessing it being drenched in fuel all week didn't help the plastic, and neither did the 22F temps. It's pretty clear to me that this carb is not supposed to be on my car.
So what next? This is a disaster.
So, I hooked up the Lone Wolf 3000 remote starter and me and the Mrs watched closely to find out where in blazes the fuel was leaking from.
This is what we found...
Yup, pissing right out of the bowl vent tubes.
The very kind @HawkRod called me on the phone - it was great to hear a kind voice and felt great to move past being a cyber friend - spoke a lot of great advice, the first thing to try being whip the top off the carb, check the floats are a) not perished, and b) set correctly, and check for any contaminates that are not allowing the needles to close up, therefor flooding the bowls. Very kind that people from this forum take so much of their time to help others, cheers Hawk!
So tonight, Monday 28th Nov, I braved the heavy snow and low temps, and went into the garage, carefully undoing the eight bolts that hold the carb together, so I could pull the top off.
It was very hard to move. In fact, it didn't move at all. So I had a quick look about to see if there's any other bolts holding the top down. There was not BUT while I was peeking about, I noticed this...
^^^ The brass 90 that pokes through a hole in the needle plate (if that's the correct term) was not in the hole.
The one at the other end was in place though...
So I spent a while getting them both into place. It seemed awfully loose and the brass 90s could easily pop back out, so I gently bent the plate ends a little, which closed the gap and allowed both brass 90s to seat into their hole properly.
Much better! Excellent.
No.
I still could not separate the top of the carb. Is it glued? I don't know. I didn't want to pry on it by any means so I uncoupled the throttle cable and took it off, and over to my bench.
When twirling the carb around on my bench, looking for why I could not separate the top, I noticed some black flakes. Didn't think anything of it at first until I saw this...
A crack in the plastic, and the black flakes must be it breaking down and crumbling apart. I put barely enough force on the top plate to really see how stuck it all was, so I'm guessing it being drenched in fuel all week didn't help the plastic, and neither did the 22F temps. It's pretty clear to me that this carb is not supposed to be on my car.
So what next? This is a disaster.
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That is unfortunate. You sure have earned the hard luck award for your experiences with this car. I never noticed that when I had the carburetor. I would have never sent you one that I knew was broken. Carter made millions of those Thermoquads so parts are still out there. I wish that I had a spare main body to send you.
I have been knee deep in frustrating projects where it seems that I find obstacles at every turn. You will win this battle. You are encountering the same obstacles that others have faced and beaten.
I have been knee deep in frustrating projects where it seems that I find obstacles at every turn. You will win this battle. You are encountering the same obstacles that others have faced and beaten.
That sucks Gary. It is frustrating to have these issues. I hate to say it, but it is not unexpected with these old cars.
I have to fly out tomorrow and will be gone for 15 days. However, I'll see if I can get the care package pictured below out to you...
I have looked at the resin main body and it looks to be OK. I have not verified the floats, so you'll have to check those - but at least you have a couple of spares that may help. Someone cut off the end of the choke wire, but if you splice in a contact you may be able to get this one to work.
Hopefully some of this stuff will help. Now I just need to see if I can get this shipped today. If not, it won't get out until December 16th. I'll send you a personal note when it ships.
I have to fly out tomorrow and will be gone for 15 days. However, I'll see if I can get the care package pictured below out to you...
I have looked at the resin main body and it looks to be OK. I have not verified the floats, so you'll have to check those - but at least you have a couple of spares that may help. Someone cut off the end of the choke wire, but if you splice in a contact you may be able to get this one to work.
Hopefully some of this stuff will help. Now I just need to see if I can get this shipped today. If not, it won't get out until December 16th. I'll send you a personal note when it ships.
Gary P
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Gary P
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Thanks guys for your continued help, support and encouragement.
I've emailed Mancini, Summit and Holley direct for advice on the next step with regards to new stuff. Summit were the first to respond with part numbers et al.
I think I've exhausted all options trying to be frugal, and being someone who absolutely has NEVER fired a parts cannon at any car I've had to try and rectify issues, but after months of piddling about and hundreds of dollars in labor costs, I do believe I have to bite the bullet now and buy new.
I fancy the Demon carb after researching last night. So here's my possible set up...
So yeah, that's a substantial amount of money, and even more irritating is I've spent about that much already and the car isn't anywhere near running.
Now, I have to put on a mini skirt and get out on the street corner and drum up some cash hahahahahaha
I've emailed Mancini, Summit and Holley direct for advice on the next step with regards to new stuff. Summit were the first to respond with part numbers et al.
I think I've exhausted all options trying to be frugal, and being someone who absolutely has NEVER fired a parts cannon at any car I've had to try and rectify issues, but after months of piddling about and hundreds of dollars in labor costs, I do believe I have to bite the bullet now and buy new.
I fancy the Demon carb after researching last night. So here's my possible set up...
So yeah, that's a substantial amount of money, and even more irritating is I've spent about that much already and the car isn't anywhere near running.
Now, I have to put on a mini skirt and get out on the street corner and drum up some cash hahahahahaha
Gary P
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Evening fella's.
Tonight, I thought I would make up for lost time and start prepping for the new stuff.
I watched a bunch of videos on electric chokes last night so having actually learned something, I went ahead and searched for keyed 12V power. Conveniently I grabbed a spade connector which was once part of the Lean Burn wiring loom, threw a test light on it and...
Lord above, I really have to get into the dash and pull out that buzzer. Take it to the driving range and blow that thing up like a golf ball. Yikes.
I now need to find a multimeter to check if that's near enough 12V. With any luck it will be, so for now I added some wire in preparation, with plenty of extra just in case...
Then I noticed the heater hose was leaking. Upon checking, the end looked stretched and looser than a Las Vegas hookers undercarriage - so I'll grab some new heater hose from the store tomorrow.
I also pulled out the existing throttle cable and the weird square grommet that sits in the firewall, in preparation for the Lokar kit. I didn't take a picture of that because to be honest, this post is duller than an afternoon with a "propane and propane accessories" salesman. I'd post an exciting picture of a topless lion tamer, if only admin wouldn't pull it down later.
So any day now I'm going to pull the trigger on all that stuff from Summit Racing. And also, FYI, over 24hrs after my original emails, Summit were the only ones to respond. Cheers.
Tonight, I thought I would make up for lost time and start prepping for the new stuff.
I watched a bunch of videos on electric chokes last night so having actually learned something, I went ahead and searched for keyed 12V power. Conveniently I grabbed a spade connector which was once part of the Lean Burn wiring loom, threw a test light on it and...
Lord above, I really have to get into the dash and pull out that buzzer. Take it to the driving range and blow that thing up like a golf ball. Yikes.
I now need to find a multimeter to check if that's near enough 12V. With any luck it will be, so for now I added some wire in preparation, with plenty of extra just in case...
Then I noticed the heater hose was leaking. Upon checking, the end looked stretched and looser than a Las Vegas hookers undercarriage - so I'll grab some new heater hose from the store tomorrow.
I also pulled out the existing throttle cable and the weird square grommet that sits in the firewall, in preparation for the Lokar kit. I didn't take a picture of that because to be honest, this post is duller than an afternoon with a "propane and propane accessories" salesman. I'd post an exciting picture of a topless lion tamer, if only admin wouldn't pull it down later.
So any day now I'm going to pull the trigger on all that stuff from Summit Racing. And also, FYI, over 24hrs after my original emails, Summit were the only ones to respond. Cheers.
71Beeper
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Gary - a suggestion to look at the new Edelbrock AVS2 carb.
It would be the closest replacement for the Thermoquad.
Lots of good reviews online about the AVS2 carb.
It would be the closest replacement for the Thermoquad.
Lots of good reviews online about the AVS2 carb.
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