My BUDGET 451 build... finally

[HT413]

Huh, well that's something I never heard before. Very interesting.

 

[69 GTX]

Jim's a pretty sharp guy! And that makes perfect sense.

 

[HT413]

Jim's a pretty sharp guy! And that makes perfect sense.

I have the valley tin off, I'll see I can identify anything that might be an offender later this evening or tomorrow.

 

[HT413]

Jim, I just sent ya a PM.

Well, after some consideration, I think it's time to think about a custom ground cam. Seems to me that a few extra bucks will earn me some increased peace of mind, better quality control and just all around a package more tailored to my needs.

 

[Gpuller]

Is it just Comp that has this problem? Seems like most of the cams that go flat are Comps.

 

[IQ52]

Is it just Comp that has this problem? Seems like most of the cams that go flat are Comps.

Comp knows that the cam cores for the Mopars are really crude/dirty, I've spoken with them about it. The cores are ground by young men trying to grind as many cams during their shifts as they can and if they don't check/correct for those flashings they can grind more cams per shift.

How many people really inspect the cams before they install them?

Around here, on a flat tappet cam, we install a lifter on every lobe and with a dial indicator look for any irregularities. If the dial indicator bumps abruptly we know there is a flashing defect that we missed.

Especially before you run a cam on a new build, install all the lifters with no valve train and no oil and turn the cam over to make sure all the lifters are rotating. Then pull the lifters and lube them according to the cam grinder's recommendations.

We check the cam timing on cylinders #1 and #6 just to better see that things were ground correctly. On a custom cam that we don't install the customer is responsible for that aspect.

 

[HT413]

I have just been considering a cam swap, hearing about this makes me a bit unerved. I am using the summit 6401, with stock 440 source springs on stealth heads. 700 miles and it seems ok so far. I hope you figure out what went wrong.

I gotta say, I'm plenty unnerved as well. From where I'm sitting, having Jim/IQ52 spec a custom cam, and hand inspect it before shipping; well I'd just be crazy not to. Hell, nitriding and edm solid lifters sure are sounding more and more like an extra few hundred bucks well spent.

- - - Updated - - -

Comp knows that the cam cores for the Mopars are really crude/dirty, I've spoken with them about it. The cores are ground by young men trying to grind as many cams during their shifts as they can and if they don't check/correct for those flashings they can grind more cams per shift.

Honestly, I never would have guessed any of that, though it sure makes sense. Heck, rods, cranks and bearing clearances all have to be inspected, why not cams too?

 

[Mike67]

Hate to hear it, I've thouroughly enjoyed reading your thread...

 

[Bruce]

The Manley rods would be better, they have cap screws instead of rod bolts makes them stronger and reduces cap walk.

 

[Mike67]

IQ52 can you educate me a little ( remember I'm just a dumb electrician..) but when you say "flashing" are you referring to the rough cast imperfections between the lobes? Which would make sense if the lifter is wider than the lobe ,anything a little higher would chew up the botom of the lifter which would spin onto the finished lobe...??? Right???? That is something I never would have thought to look at... Man I hate that this happened but I will be installing a Comp XE275HL in mine real soon...I'll be looking at it very closely....thanks IQ!

 

[GrabberOrange69]

Comp knows that the cam cores for the Mopars are really crude/dirty, I've spoken with them about it. The cores are ground by young men trying to grind as many cams during their shifts as they can and if they don't check/correct for those flashings they can grind more cams per shift.

How many people really inspect the cams before they install them?

Around here, on a flat tappet cam, we install a lifter on every lobe and with a dial indicator look for any irregularities. If the dial indicator bumps abruptly we know there is a flashing defect that we missed.

Especially before you run a cam on a new build, install all the lifters with no valve train and no oil and turn the cam over to make sure all the lifters are rotating. Then pull the lifters and lube them according to the cam grinder's recommendations.

We check the cam timing on cylinders #1 and #6 just to better see that things were ground correctly. On a custom cam that we don't install the customer is responsible for that aspect.

Well there's my learning for the day! Thanks for passing this info along, great safety tip!

 

[HT413]

The Manley rods would be better, they have cap screws instead of rod bolts makes them stronger and reduces cap walk.

That ship has sailed long ago...

 

[IQ52]

IQ52 can you educate me a little ( remember I'm just a dumb electrician..) but when you say "flashing" are you referring to the rough cast imperfections between the lobes? ...........

Yes I am. The cams are cast in a split mold. Some of the cast material gets between the two halves of the mold, that's the flashing. If it isn't knocked or ground off it can hit the lifter. Generally along side the base circle is where I find the problems.

 

[HYRDGOON]

Comp knows that the cam cores for the Mopars are really crude/dirty, I've spoken with them about it. The cores are ground by young men trying to grind as many cams during their shifts as they can and if they don't check/correct for those flashings they can grind more cams per shift.

How many people really inspect the cams before they install them?

Around here, on a flat tappet cam, we install a lifter on every lobe and with a dial indicator look for any irregularities. If the dial indicator bumps abruptly we know there is a flashing defect that we missed.

Especially before you run a cam on a new build, install all the lifters with no valve train and no oil and turn the cam over to make sure all the lifters are rotating. Then pull the lifters and lube them according to the cam grinder's recommendations.

We check the cam timing on cylinders #1 and #6 just to better see that things were ground correctly. On a custom cam that we don't install the customer is responsible for that aspect.

That's very interesting. Do you think QC would be any better on a Custom Grind rather than the off the shelf pieces?

 

[lewtot184]

my suggestion for a camshaft that will see a lot of street miles is pass on the "fast lobe" profiles. i've been driving on an older profile solid lifter for 13yrs, and it's still driving fine. did you use stamped rockers, and did you measure the preload on the tappet plungers?

 

[HT413]

my suggestion for a camshaft that will see a lot of street miles is pass on the "fast lobe" profiles. i've been driving on an older profile solid lifter for 13yrs, and it's still driving fine. did you use stamped rockers, and did you measure the preload on the tappet plungers?

You're not the first to suggest that. I was talking to Dwayne Porter the other day and he agreed that it always seemed to be the fast rate cams that wipe, while the summit cams seem to go forever lol. I sure am learning some fun facts along the way...

We used ductile iron rockers and my buddy Kenny did measure preload, though I don't have that info. I should have the motor out this week and weather permitting, might be able to bring it over to his shop in the next week or two...

 

[lewtot184]

dwayn's pretty sharp. those "fast lobe" hydraulics are crap. there are a bunch of profiles out there that will give good street performance and reliability. something i don't understand is if a hydraulic lifter person wants solid lifter performance then why not buy a solid cam, or if the solid cam guy wants roller performance why not just buy a roller? everything else is just trying to make a purse out of a sows ear. get some master lobe profile catalogs, study them, and learn to do the math to figure lobes out.

 

[69 GTX]

I second that!

 

[dieseldazzle]

Ive had Oregon cams grind about 15 cams for me and they even send the cam "dyno" sheet along with it. I have never had an issue. Grumpy old men but still, no issues. Reasonable price too.

 

[Gpuller]

That's very interesting. Do you think QC would be any better on a Custom Grind rather than the off the shelf pieces?

Good question!