Need some engine advice

[hunt2elk]

missed read the piston sheet thought it was 18 cc dish but that was 18 volume. am getting 9.45 with .007 piston out of hole, like 8.5-8.75 on a iron head. smaller cam should not cause pinging i would think with that compression. 8008 intake is hurting you. holley sd or torker would work. yes combo. intake, cam. you might just be happy. better than starting over. tires would would be last thing if needed

Yeah, I can't seem to get these pics to show up clearly. Even tried it 2 different ways. To be clear, this second motor doesn't detonate ever. Runs good, doesn't run hot. But doesn't have the snort it should. I am definitely replacing the intake as soon as I can find one.

 

[Hemirunner]

Sounds like you need a 572.

This is probably what the original build should’ve been, but the price tag would’ve been much higher. I probably would’ve spec’d a stock block 4.500 stroke combo. Those work great for these types of cars. A gear change is about the only affordable solution from my vantage point.

 

[gtxrt]

Yeah, I can't seem to get these pics to show up clearly. Even tried it 2 different ways. To be clear, this second motor doesn't detonate ever. Runs good, doesn't run hot. But doesn't have the snort it should. I am definitely replacing the intake as soon as I can find one.

since you have the intake off might as well throw that 114 lsa cam out. lol

 

[Hemirunner]

since you have the intake off might as well throw that 114 lsa cam out. lol

Or roll it forward 6 degrees

 

[hunt2elk]

Sounds like you need a 572.

Don't know about that. I do wish that you were close to me however. I would haul this thing over and have you work your magic....

 

[hunt2elk]

Or roll it forward 6 degrees

I am not an engine guy by any means, but are you saying I could change the position of this cam to make it somewhat work? 6 degrees would make it a 108?
Curious, after looking at all the data I posted, what would be a better cam for what I want?

 

[Hemirunner]

I am not an engine guy by any means, but are you saying I could change the position of this cam to make it somewhat work? 6 degrees would make it a 108?
Curious, after looking at all the data I posted, what would be a better cam for what I want?

Advancing it will close the intake valve earlier and increase cylinder pressure. Without knowing where it’s currently at, it’s all guessing at this stage. It would be a bandaid at best.

 

[pnora]

These are what I would do before spending money.
1-Verify TDC and balancer mark to be correct.
2-Run a compression test with a known accurate gauge.
3-Degree the cam.
From what I have read I would not trust anything as being correct on the build.

 

[451Mopar]

Interesting history with that engine. What was the original cam?

I have ran the 500" stroker 12.4:1 on 100 octane unleaded, and a blend of 91 pump unleaded mixed with race gas, then with E-85.
I never tried to run it on straight pump gas, I had E-85 in mind when I built the Engine.

The 505" 440 with the Trick flow 240 heads was a pump gas engine with 9.9:1 compression, and a launiti Voodo solid roller cam about the same duration as your High rate of lift Mopar hydraulic flat tappet cam. I used the Harlan Sharpe 1.6:1 rocker arms that Trick flow specified. That engine seemed like it could have used more compression too.

The parts I have for the new 440 that I was talking about using the Glyptal on, will be just a bit under 11:1 compression if I recall the numbers correctly.

 

[hunt2elk]

This is the cam that was in the first build. 112 lsa, 241 @ .050, gross valve lift .546. This one had 190 psi cranking pressure. I see on the card it states that these specs are for the cam installed @ 108. intake centerline.

 

[hunt2elk]

These are what I would do before spending money.
1-Verify TDC and balancer mark to be correct.
2-Run a compression test with a known accurate gauge.
3-Degree the cam.
From what I have read I would not trust anything as being correct on the build.

Good advice, I need to take a step back and slow down. When I get a Holley Street Dominator in my hands I will do a compression test before taking the intake off. Then, what do I need to check the cam position while the motor is in the car and the heads are still bolted on? I see on the cam card that the spec numbers are for the cam set at 110 lsa even though it is a 114, so maybe it isn't that bad of a mismatch.

 

[gtxrt]

Good advice, I need to take a step back and slow down. When I get a Holley Street Dominator in my hands I will do a compression test before taking the intake off. Then, what do I need to check the cam position while the motor is in the car and the heads are still bolted on? I see on the cam card that the spec numbers are for the cam set at 110 lsa even though it is a 114, so maybe it isn't that bad of a mismatch.

you can not change LSA on the cam once it's made,your just changing the installed center line.

 

[gtxrt]

This is the cam that was in the first build. 112 lsa, 241 @ .050, gross valve lift .546. This one had 190 psi cranking pressure. I see on the card it states that these specs are for the cam installed @ 108. intake centerline.

View attachment 1243621

190 cranking compression is not high for aluminum heads it's actually on the low side

 

[hunt2elk]

190 cranking compression is not high for aluminum heads it's actually on the low side

It is sounding like I really need to find a different cam.....

 

[451Mopar]

This is the cam that was in the first build. 112 lsa, 241 @ .050, gross valve lift .546. This one had 190 psi cranking pressure. I see on the card it states that these specs are for the cam installed @ 108. intake centerline.

View attachment 1243621

Not sure why they even changed the cam to one with a wider LSA, and installed at 112 according to the build sheet?
Maybe that would have helped with the original higher compression pistons?
It seems like the original build should have been good, and maybe the distributor problem was causing the detonation, then things got changed?

I really don't see an easy fix to get the engine to where you want it with the cam and pistons installed?
Any input from Brian?

 

[hunt2elk]

Not sure why they even changed the cam to one with a wider LSA, and installed at 112 according to the build sheet?
Maybe that would have helped with the original higher compression pistons?
It seems like the original build should have been good, and maybe the distributor problem was causing the detonation, then things got changed?

I really don't see an easy fix to get the engine to where you want it with the cam and pistons installed?
Any input from Brian?

He thought the original pistons and cam were causing the detonation problem. Like I said, he should have thrown it back on his dyno before tearing it apart to see exactly what the problem was. At this point, I really don't think I want to deal with Brian anymore. If I have to I guess I would pull the motor and take it to a shop in the Twin Cities. Idk, the whole deal just really pisses me off.

 

[451Mopar]

I'd would just put in an inexpensive Launiti Voodoo 268/276 (226/234 @ 0.050" duration) cam in. The Voodoo cams are 3-bolt so you wouldn't have to changing the timing chain set. It won't make the most top end power, but put the power back in the lower RPM range.
I don't know about the intake manifold. The dual plane should be good for lower RPM, but I don't have a clue how the fuel distribution is on it?
I would just change the cam first. Swapping big block intakes is pretty easy.

 

[PRHeads]

He thought the original pistons and cam were causing the detonation problem.

In light of the fact that it seems like it wasn’t even close to running on pump gas without pinging....... I’d say that was probably the case.

It would be a strange thing to have the distributor gear riding up and changing the timing with the engine under load........but not do it while you were checking the timing(without a load).
I’m not saying it couldn’t happen....... just that it would be odd to me.

At this point, with under 10:1cr and aluminum heads, I’d say just cam it for the intended usage(like there was never a pinging problem), and see if that provides a satisfactory result.

 

[hunt2elk]

In light of the fact that it seems like it wasn’t even close to running on pump gas without pinging....... I’d say that was probably the case.

It would be a strange thing to have the distributor gear riding up and changing the timing with the engine under load........but not do it while you were checking the timing(without a load).
I’m not saying it couldn’t happen....... just that it would be odd to me.

At this point, with under 10:1cr and aluminum heads, I’d say just cam it for the intended usage(like there was never a pinging problem), and see if that provides a satisfactory result.

I think it is also strange that the thing didn't detonate when he dyno'd it the first time, but did immediately when I put it in the car. If I remember correctly, after he put the second (current) engine together, he said at about 2500 rpm it would add 15 degrees of timing, every time. Putting the bushing on the dist. shaft cured it.
No doubt I would rather do a cam change than pull the motor and start over. So if I do that, how do I pick a cam that would be a better match for the rest of my combo? Call you, or are you totally done with customers?
I am going to replace the Weiand intake with a Holley Street Dominator.

 

[gtxrt]

toss this around. same grind that you have from comp. lobe intake 5964, lobe exhaust 5984. intake=231 [email protected] with 560 lift. exhaust 237 [email protected] with 560 lift. with a 110 LSA with 106 centerline. could even put it on 108 LSA with 104 centerline to build more cylinder compression. that's the smallest duration they have with that grind. the voodoo cam would work too but has a lot less lift.