Need some engine advice

[PRHeads]

It’s like....... which of these scenarios causes you less concern......

-a bunch of rockers weren’t tightened properly during assembly, or

-the adjusters aren’t square to the lock nut spot face, so there’s a fair chance they’ll loosen up again.

I think if you check and see how easily(or how hard) the locks nuts can be broken loose after you’ve tightened them yourself...... it may help answer the the question.

 

[hunt2elk]

Update on this ordeal. Did the rocker preload adjustment this weekend. Found that 1/2 the lifters could be totally collapsed with slight finger pressure. Went ahead with the procedure 3 times checking my adjustments even knowing the lifters were junk. Also 4 of the adjusters were galled or something as they couldn't be backed out. Fired it up and what a racket it makes now. Shut it down and sent pics of the witness marks of the 2 rockers missing nuts and explaining the outcome of the adjustment to the builder. Another odd thing is that none of the other rockers had lopsided marks like the 2 missing nuts.
Brian at IMM Engines is taking responsibility for this even though we really don't know what happened. He is being really decent even though I was nervous about that and the reason I didn't call him sooner.
He is going to send me new lifters and rockers and I will replace them in my garage. I am not interested in pulling the motor and sending it back to him again.
He is going to try to find some Johnson hydraulic flat tappets, unless any of you have some better recommendations.
He will also send me whatever rockers I want. Choices right now are original Harland Sharp 70016KE with the needle bearings, Mancini/Harland Sharp 57001-16-714K - these don't have bearings, or Hughes 15203's. Neither the Mancini or Hughes have needle bearings or bushings as far as he knows. He recommends the Mancini's, maybe because of cost, idk.
So my question to you engine guys who have dealt with Trick Flow heads, which rockers would you go with if this was your motor?

 

[PRHeads]

Mancini/Harland Sharp 70016KE

That’s the number for HS branded rockers, not the HS made “Mancini” (MRE) brand rockers.

 

[hunt2elk]

That’s the number for HS branded rockers, not the HS made “Mancini” (MRE) brand rockers.

View attachment 1153122

Sorry, trying to type on my phone and put in the wrong #. Edited to the correct 1 you posted.

 

[PRHeads]

Update on this ordeal. Did the rocker preload adjustment this weekend. Found that 1/2 the lifters could be totally collapsed with slight finger pressure. Went ahead with the procedure 3 times checking my adjustments even knowing the lifters were junk. Also 4 of the adjusters were galled or something as they couldn't be backed out. Fired it up and what a racket it makes now. Shut it down and sent pics of the witness marks of the 2 rockers missing nuts and explaining the outcome of the adjustment to the builder. Another odd thing is that none of the other rockers had lopsided marks like the 2 missing nuts.

Just wondering....... how long did you let it run after readjusting the rockers?
If the lifters were collapsed prior to the adjustment, they would take a little time to pump up and quiet down.
If you ran it for a few minutes and it was still noisy, then there’s likely a lifter problem.

As for the “squareness” of the adjuster screw lock nut spotface, I think if you take off the nut, clean off the top of rocker with something like carb clean, use a sharpie to mark the spotface area, then reinstall the nut and snug it down....... then pull it back off and see if the mark from the sharpie has been cleaned off all the way around.
That would be a way to help confirm if the loosening adjuster screw issue is likely caused by the rocker being made wrong, or if the nuts just weren’t tight enough.

 

[MOPAR MARTY]

Messing around with the 400-493 stroker in my Super Bee. For those that remember, this is the second go around with this engine for me.
Built by a prominent shop in CA. The first one had a detonation issue. Pulled the motor and sent it back to get a milder cam, and dish pistons with a quench. I lost 20 hp and 4 ft lbs if I remember correctly.
Anyway, got the new motor in last winter and have put 1800 miles on it so far. Have been noticing a progressively worsening valve train noise. Everyone says that hydraulic flat tappet never need service, so I just kept driving it. Today I pulled off the valve covers and was shocked to find the adjusting nuts for #3 intake and #4 exhaust laying in the bottom of the head. #1 and #4 intake nuts were loose. #3, #5, #6 exhaust nuts were loose. The remaining 9 are tight.
What could possibly cause this to happen?
PRW rockers, Trick Flow 240 heads.

View attachment 1151850 View attachment 1151851

u got problems t thatsY i never used the speed shop race stuff for the dtreet . its too lste now but i woild hsd used s shaved stock head thrn use thr right gas &b set the timing right (what cam r u useing ? is it mopar performance??

 

[MOPAR MARTY]

stock heads part #'s

 

[hunt2elk]

Just wondering....... how long did you let it run after readjusting the rockers?
If the lifters were collapsed prior to the adjustment, they would take a little time to pump up and quiet down.
If you ran it for a few minutes and it was still noisy, then there’s likely a lifter problem.

As for the “squareness” of the adjuster screw lock nut spotface, I think if you take off the nut, clean off the top of rocker with something like carb clean, use a sharpie to mark the spotface area, then reinstall the nut and snug it down....... then pull it back off and see if the mark from the sharpie has been cleaned off all the way around.
That would be a way to help confirm if the loosening adjuster screw issue is likely caused by the rocker being made wrong, or if the nuts just weren’t tight enough.

I let it run for 3 minutes or so. I have it pulled apart now. Oddly all 8 of the right side lifters are weak and the 8 on the other side seem to be holding firm. 3 of the adjusting screws are messed up, not being able to back out and aluminum shavings showing underneath. As far as the rocker adjusters. Only the 2 that were laying in the bottom of the head had 1/2 contact like the 1 pic I posted. The others had fairly even witness marks. At this point I believe that those 2 were not even remotely tightened, and several others were not tightened enough. Then some lifters failed and that caused more stress on the rockers. I believe the cam looks good? All the lifter faces that ride on the cam are slightly high in the middle. Not sure if this is how they should be. All the pushrods seem to roll straight. Hoping all these valve train problems explain why I don't feel like the motor had nearly the power it should.

 

[padam]

You hafta put those lifters back in the same hole they came from.

 

[hunt2elk]

You hafta put those lifters back in the same hole they came from.

I have them in the order they were in the motor, but we are replacing them.....

 

[RemCharger]

Had to reread the thread a couple times.
1800 miles.. noise got progressively worse..
Not sure what that means exactly
If the adjusters were loosening off.. that explains it
Hyd lifters will have slop from drain down during valve adjustment turning over
What oil were you running
My cause for concern would be putting new rough lifters in and grinding down cam lobes (if the original lifters didn't actually "just crap out")

 

[PRHeads]

As an experiment, and because I’d just be curious about it.......

If you take each of the soft lifters and submerge them in a cup of oil, and pump the plunger with one of the pushrods(while submerged)....... will they pump up hard?

It’s amazing how the overall lifter situation has become such a **** show.

 

[padam]

I hate to go here, but damn Chinese products straight to hell.

 

[hunt2elk]

Had to reread the thread a couple times.
1800 miles.. noise got progressively worse..
Not sure what that means exactly
If the adjusters were loosening off.. that explains it
Hyd lifters will have slop from drain down during valve adjustment turning over
What oil were you running
My cause for concern would be putting new rough lifters in and grinding down cam lobes (if the original lifters didn't actually "just crap out")

The oil is Valvoline VR1 10-30. Just checked the total miles on the motor and it is 1300, not 1800 like I guessed. I babied it for the first 500 miles and after that got on it pretty good while carb tuning. There was slight ticking from the get go, but not bad. Not as quite as my other motors, but not bad enough that I thought something was wrong. Progressivly got louder and then 2 weeks ago it got quite noticeable.

 

[hunt2elk]

All 8 lifters from the left bank are hard as a rock. All 8 from the right bank easily push down 3/16" and then are solid. At this point I cannot move them any farther by putting all my weight on them, same as the other side. How hard should they be to move?

 

[hunt2elk]

So it looks like the full travel of the lifters is a strong 3/16". If I put them in a vise with a small socket where the rod goes, I can get them broke loose. Takes a lot of pressure. After that, they move freely. Set them in oil and pump several times and they seem to work fine. Would it be such a thing that they are sticking?

 

[PRHeads]

Not to say it couldn’t happen....... but the ones I’ve seen with stuck plungers...... were stuck at the bottom....... not the top.

 

[beanhead]

You could disassemble the problem children and clean them out real good, and clean the internal pieces...maybe they're crapped up inside? (Watch those pesky snap rings--there's one or two of mine still in orbit somewhere).

And, a question...can you 'fingernail' feel that circular wear mark on this lifter face from your pics?

I only mention it because it seems a little much for the low mileage?
Maybe PRH can shed better light on that...but I have various used lifters that have more miles on them and they don't have (what appears to be) such a 'scratchy' looking wear mark. Maybe it's just the lighting though.

 

[hunt2elk]

You could disassemble the problem children and clean them out real good, and clean the internal pieces...maybe they're crapped up inside? (Watch those pesky snap rings--there's one or two of mine still in orbit somewhere).

And, a question...can you 'fingernail' feel that circular wear mark on this lifter face from your pics?
View attachment 1154425

I only mention it because it seems a little much for the low mileage?
Maybe PRH can shed better light on that...but I have various used lifters that have more miles on them and they don't have (what appears to be) such a 'scratchy' looking wear mark. Maybe it's just the lighting though.

I can not feel the ring on that #2 exhaust lifter. That is the only 1 like that. The rest of them have a smaller slighter wear mark or none at all. I'll have to spin the motor over tomorrow to look at that cm lobe.

 

[beanhead]

I can not feel the ring on that #2 exhaust lifter. That is the only 1 like that. The rest of them have a smaller slighter wear mark or none at all. I'll have to spin the motor over tomorrow to look at that cm lobe.

Okay cool. Yeah maybe run your boogerflippers around the edges of that lobe best you can, just to check it out for a rough edge or something. As always, best of luck! You're due!