Need some helpful advice please

[superbird77]

Hello everyone, sorry if this is long. i need some advice and help on my current Roadrunner project. Its a long story but i have had to remove the car from two shops due to work not getting done, poor quality work and being charged for work that never got done. This has happened twice and i did everything i could think of to avoid these issues and be understanding. I own and operate my own business and if i worked like these two previous shops i wouldnt have customers. This brings me to the third shop i have my vehicle at, i decided to work with this person for a few reasons but the main reason being he seemed to understand my previous people problems and gave me his word he wouldn't treat me like that. I'm low maintenance, i pay my bills and allow for extra time needed if something doesn't get done when he said it would.

This person in question was to finish the body work and paint the vehicle, as well as fix the issues caused by the previous two shops. He started out well but the car was supposed to be painted by Jan 1st, That came and went and i was nice about it. In the last month most all communication has stopped along with work on the car. He has a deposit from me so money is not my issue. We agreed to weekly updates and hours used. I have called him once a week for the last month without any reply. I have access to the shop and have noticed new projects being worked that were not there previously. Based on my two previous nightmares i am assuming the worst.....again. What is anyone's advice on how to handle this situation? It seems there is very little one can do once this starts taking place, it usually ends up in me having to remove the car and lose out on my deposit unless i want to play the legal game.

This is killing me, any enjoyment i had in this car has been lost. The only thing keeping me in the project is the determination that i won't let these jerks take my dream project from me. I'm losing patience and need some help, Thanks!

 

[HawkRod]

I feel for you. There seem to be so many of these nightmare stories - it really is sad.

First of all, there probably isn't one right answer, what might work in one situation might not work in another. Maybe you have been too nice and accommodating, and you are the easy one to put off when a crunch comes. Sometimes you need to be a squeaky wheel.

My thought would be to talk to the owner. Make it clear you need your car, and that you have paid to have the car done and expect it to be done, and that it is unacceptable to put other work ahead of yours when yours is behind schedule. Tell him you need it for the next phase, for other work, whatever. One way or another, you need to put some pressure on him and make him uncomfortable. Be the squeaky wheel. Maybe even go off on him that this is the third time and now you are ready to get a lawyer involved (if the initial escalation does not work).

Good luck and keep us posted...

 

[bm02tj]

See if you can find a friend that can look and act to take an exotic car to him and ask for prices and how long to have it done
and when he is ready to write a deposit show up and complain so he rips the check and takes his car away
and start stopping by to say hi
he will want to get rid of your job if he thinks he lost out on a big dollar one because of you

good luck
|Bruce

 

[BumperMan]

I went through this with my motor rebuild, I don't understand it either but it seems like it's the nature of the business. A friend of mine said one time sometimes you have to go show your butt if you want anything done. He used a few more words but you get my drift, good luck

 

[Runner 68]

With all due respect Superbird, you sound like a descent, honest man, but I think you are allowing yourself to be pushed around.

I am a project manager by trade and have earned a good living by being able to get things done. Dead beats come in all forms. It's really not that difficult.

Set your project up as milestone based. Stop putting deposits down because you're a nice guy. Let them know they get paid when a certain milestone is reached to your statisfaction. Set up some acceptance criteria if you have to. If they don't want to play that game, find another shop. You are the boss because you are the one writing the checks.

In my expierience the guys that want paid up front haven't managed their business well enough to work off of their own nickle. They want to use yours. As a business owner I'm sure you appreciate this.

Stay your course, don't take any ****. Good luck.

 

[Propwash]

Wow, that really sucks to hear. Sorry to hear of the headaches you're going through. I think hsorman & runner are right on base with a good strategy. Make face and make sure he's fully aware of your schedule and expectations. Persistence pays off, and i'm sure you've seen that play out plenty of times in your own business. Things come into perspective quite differently when looking a man in the eye vs. someone ignoring a phone call. Good luck, hope it works out for you.

 

[Bb70charger500]

The paying up front is what's killing you they got your money and what's the worse that will happen you take the car then they get out of the olwork and still have your cash , the shops getting as many jobs as he can to line his pockets he doesn't care if there's 20 cars sitting around he got payed already , and God forbid it's one of those shops that close up over night and haul *** with your car and 19 others .I would get on his *** and if you don't get a damn good answer tell him your attorney will be calling him soon and follow threw don't let anyone push you around and screw you over. Your the boss not him, when it comes to things like this I let my Italian side out , no one screws with me then . Good luck and I hope everything works out

 

[miller]

Probably time, yours, and your particular situation, would prohibit it...

But, sounds like you would have been better off investing in some spray equipment!
Unfortunately, the deal comes across...if you want it done right, do it yourself.

Sorry to hear your probs. Hope it comes out for you.

 

[Bobo]

Sounds like a good pistol whip might bring the ahole around I feel your pain I have had to get real ugly with 2 different scum bag shops in the end classic industries saved me from a major feloney wtf is going on in ther heads ? Hope some how it gets done good luck and hang in there

 

[R/T]

Bondo shops cater to "He" who screams the loudest! Ask an independant flatbed towing operator who's the best bodyman to bring it to.

 

[2059]

As stated, face time is key. When I was having my 64 done I stopped by nearly everyday on my way to or from work. A visit at least twice a week would be good if you can do it. Good luck. BTW the shop went out of business a year later and the owner now works for me in our paint shop.

 

[superbird77]

Thanks for all the advice guys. As a business owner i know how to light a fire under somebody but i always try to be level headed first. With my past two experiences my patience is low and my temper is high. I suspect just as you guys have mentioned, he used up my deposit and now needs other jobs to keep the lights on, etc. The issue i run into is no shop will work without a deposit, most guys on here that do work like this can attest that it just doesn't happen. I've stopped over a few times but have missed him since it was after 5 PM, sounds like i need to take some time off work and meet him there in the morning to have a discussion. It just pains me to have to keep wrestling these guys but i've learned quickly that in this industry its normal operating procedure. If i do another car in the future i need to learn how to do bodywork & paint so i can avoid dealing with other parties. Luckily anything mechanical i am doing myself to recoup money i have lost dealing with these other hacks. Thanks again for all the help, I'm determined to finish this car by spring, bank account willing.

 

[Dako]

As stated...face-to-face time is crucial. It shows you are still interested in getting it back. I know guys who drop cars off and are still waiting a year-and-a-half later. They never stop by...they are very passive in the whole process. In reality, most are in no hurry themselves.

I don't believe in hounding someone every week. It can just get them agitated and they start 'short-cutting' work to get your car out. Depending on the amount of work your ride needs, or how many other projects they are juggling, months can elapse to get the car completed.

I was by every 3 to 4 weeks...always with a camera in hand to document any work done...or to ask what the delay was if no progress had been made. I was very upbeat with verbal praise on any noticeable progress, but if they weren't making progress, I was putting them on the spot to explain why. Nobody likes explaining themselves when they haven't accomplished anything. When another car showed up I said, "Looks like you need to finish mine so you can have more room to work on that new arrival."

As it was, mine went 3 months over the original projection. I was okay with this because I was busy at home taking care of all the piece-parts that I had removed (cleaning, painting, rebuilding, etc.

If you feel your car is being pushed off by work getting performed on the new arrivals, I would calmly, but firmly confront him...Face-toFace..."We have went past the estimated completion by XX weeks. I'm okay with some 'un-for-seens' extending the deadline a bit, but I'm concerned that you have begun focusing on these 'new' projects instead of finishing mine. Can we agree, it has been here much longer? (Wait for him to acknowledge it has) Do I need to be concerned?" (Again, wait for a response).

End the conversation by pumping him up a bit, "I'm sure you are just as anxious to get my car finished and out of your shop so you can start devoting the same quality time to these newer projects."

Have him give you an updated timeline on the work that remains to be done. Unfortunately, you're definitely going to have to stay on him for the remainder of the ride. Start making your 'drop-in' visits every 2 - 3 weeks. You will get him to complete what he has started. Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[miller]

Kinda proves the old saying is true...nice guys finish last. Or is it better to get pissed off, than pissed on???
Sorry. Don't like raw deals.

Hope you get a decent outcome on things.

 

[superbird77]

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way Mr. nice guy when it comes to business. I just prefer to be decent and reasonable before i get aggressive. Sadly almost every person I've paid to work on this car turned out to be dishonest or totally unprofessional. I guess i should start out aggressive from the start knowing what i do now. Its a testament to the times we are living in i suppose.

Kinda proves the old saying is true...nice guys finish last. Or is it better to get pissed off, than pissed on???
Sorry. Don't like raw deals.

Hope you get a decent outcome on things.

 

[Runner 68]

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way Mr. nice guy when it comes to business. I just prefer to be decent and reasonable before i get aggressive. Sadly almost every person I've paid to work on this car turned out to be dishonest or totally unprofessional. I guess i should start out aggressive from the start knowing what i do now. Its a testament to the times we are living in i suppose.

I have found that in all business dealings, white collar or blue collar, it's best to cut to the chase and not f@ck about. Be honest, be firm, but above all, don't let yourself be pushed around.

There is much truth in the old adage that "It's a Jungle Out There". There are always those willing to forego ethics to make a buck. AKA, take advantage of the nice guy....kill the easy prey, regardless of what it requires. Fortunately they typically aren't in business very long.

You can be firm without being a prick.
If you're really good at it, you can be a prick and people thank you for it.

 

[Blown 67 coronet]

I have run into problems like this. Unless you want to pull your project out ,get together in person and agree about a revised reasonable deadline, with no more excuses. A penalty for not meeting it such as $ 100 for each day over the deadline, make him sign an agreement. And make it clear you will use every means possible to spread the word about the way he treated your project.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[Dako]

I have run into problems like this. Unless you want to pull your project out ,get together in person and agree about a revised reasonable deadline, with no more excuses. A penalty for not meeting it such as $ 100 for each day over the deadline, make him sign an agreement. And make it clear you will use every means possible to spread the word about the way he treated your project.

- - - Updated - - -

Did not mention in my earlier post. Body man and I had a written agreement (as mentioned here)...that the body guy drafted(!). I paid for materials (filler, sand paper, primer, sealer, paint, etc.) Up front. Wrote another check once we reached sealer stage. Then wrote a final check once it was cut and buffed. He also had written in that I could bring it back once I had it together and he would take care of any blemishes I found along with any chips or minor scratches I may have caused during my reassembly. He acknowledged 'it happens' to the best...no matter how careful you are.

 

[67GTX440]

I know the pain. After 21 long months of weekly visits, completion discussions, arguments, threats, body shop closed due to owner bypass surgery etc., the body work is done on my car and it is ready to move to paint. The advice I got on this site was to pull the car out of the shop and get it home, but I stuck it out and now know it is going to be completed. The owner loves to paint, but does not love body work. His finished work out the door looks great and his prices are cheap.

He would tell me he was just plain tired of working on my car and work on one of his own projects instead for no pay that he would never complete. He also gave preference to any car recurring car lot quickie paint jobs that were recurring customers that would bring in quick cash and insurance work where he got the insurance payment up front. I paid him 50% up front and that was a mistake, but he gave me two well satisfied recent references for similar work. I was originally quoted a three work turnaround, but there was a lot of concealed rust that led to full length quarter panel patch panels, new trunk extensions, fabrication of outer wheelhouses and cutting off entire roof and replacing with a rust free donor roof. I am glad I stayed the course and kept after him to get it done. I would really have been screwed to have collected the car in pieces and starting over with another shop from scratch. That would have been like giving the new shop a blank check. All work was agreed on and priced in an agreement and the price was fair. The timeliness left something to be desired, but the end is in sight.

Last picture is car in the body shop in my darkest hours of dispair. Believe it or not, the car starts and drives in spite of the lack of dash and the wire nest. Same car in my avatar that was a pretty nice looking driver before I thought it could be improved. Oops!

Hang in there.

 

[superbird77]

Ok, so an update guys. I finally talked to him face to face, his reason for no call backs was "oh I'm bad at checking my voicemail and even worse on texts" he claims he won't get anything done if all he does is answer the phone. No real reason for not getting much done in the past month. I let him know I wasn't happy with the situation and needed to know when it was going to be painted. He tells me the car should be cut in by late this week. He also says that it's best to cut the car in (undercarriage, engine bay, trunk, door jambs, etc) and put all the suspension, plumbing, drivetrain in first before finishing the paint on the rest of the car. What's everyones take on this practice? His comment was that this car is gonna take a lot of hours to paint because it has so many areas that get body color. To me that's just a way of saying im gonna bill you to the moon. Seems to me if the car is totally painted I could then remove it or work at my pace to complete it. I do need help with some assembly which I mentioned to him at the start but I cannot afford to pay him to do all this nor do I want to. I'm just not trusting of anyone anymore so I like to get the FBBO voice of reasons before I speak to him this week.