Not a good way to end the summer

[runner74]

Well, took my 74 Runner 400 to fill her up with gas yesterday and got about 2 miles from my house when all of a sudden loss of power, a couple sputters and dead. Pulled over and did the Mopar ritual of changing the Ballast resister to a known good one, next the coil, and last the Ignition box still no fire? Lastly took off the distributor cap, gave her a crank and no spin of the rotor. The distributor is still connected the the distributor drive gear. (Tried to turn rotor by hand, just the normal amount of play, does not turn freely) So assuming the nylon teeth on the sprocket gave up the ghost?) So now I am trying to decide if I should attempt this myself? The service manual says you need Tool C-3688 and C-3509. So wondering if these specialized tools are available for rent at Autozone or somewhere?

Also, when doing this job are there any other recommended parts to replace when in there? (Like when you do a timing belt you change the water pump kind of thing)

Any thing else I should look for that may have caused this?

Also would like recommendations of having the ballancer refurbished or a good replacement as it looks original also.

I don't know the history of the car but really pretty original so assuming the nylon teeth let go. It's been in the back of my mind for a while.

I know some of you have probably been here done that...

Thanks

 

[mmissile]

If the timing set gave up the ghost.....Sounds like a good time to yank it, and freshen the engine.

 

[Cranky]

The rotor doesn't spin at all when you crank the engine over?

 

[runner74]

Correct.

Engine will turn over but rotor does not spin, Also took the oilcap off, hard to see the rocker through mopar performance cover but did not see a rocker move either.

 

[snakeoil24]

Could be you lost timing chain. I would not turn engine over until you can pull timing cover and determine what is going on.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I had a similar deal with the rotor not turning. Ended up being the distributor itself. Pull the distrib out and verify that the oil pump drive gear is turning.
On another occation had something jam the oil pump drive and break!!

 

[mopar 3 B]

Time for timng chain and gasket set.

 

[runner74]

 

[runner74]

Well I am sure to many of you have seen this before? Looks like I'll have to drop the pan.

Can I assume that the cam shaft should be able to turn freely by hand with the sprocket attached? And if it doesn't turn freely to expect the oil pump to be frozen with a piece of nylon in it?

 

[snakeoil24]

You will not know until you drop pan! also remove oil pump check and the fuel pump push rod needs inspection.

 

[runner74]

Thanks snakeoil24 What do I look for with the fuel pump push rod?

Can I assume it's a good time to replace the fuel pump now too?

 

[ocdart]

I'm a small-block A-body guy, but with the amount of metal gone from the timing gear I'd want to go through the entire engine. Not just drop the pan.

 

[RT K_line]

You won't be able to turn the cam gear very easily because it has valve spring tension. It will turn it just won't spin freely. The only reason to drop the pan would be to get the nylon pieces out and check the pick up tube for chunks of nylon also. JMO

 

[MarPar]

I'm a small-block A-body guy, but with the amount of metal gone from the timing gear I'd want to go through the entire engine. Not just drop the pan.

X2.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

This now a recovery effort. Motor should come out and hit the spa.

 

[runner74]

Well after working on the Runner on the weekends, pulled the front all apart cleaned and painted the various parts with Mopar p4349217ab replaced the Harmonic balancer, oil pump (Probably not necessary) fuel pump, water pump etc. pulled the pan and cleaned. (Took the advise of many here that used the Windage tray with pre-molded gaskets) Lined up the timing gears, got the cover back on and hand cranked to number one compression stroke verified with finger in number one hole and timing mark seemed to be right on with zero, or within a degree or two anyway. put in the oil pump drive shaft with it parallel with center line of crank, installed distributor. Now here is where I need your help. She fired up after only two cranks even with new fuel line and new dry fuel filter, but running a little rough, not bad though, but fired up the timing light and it shows like 20-30 degrees off? If I bring the timing close to where it should be she almost stalls. So something is wrong. Ran out of time tonight and too frustrated now anyway. So now I am assuming either I am off by a tooth. (I was sure the marks were dead nuts on, but confess I did not use a straight edge as the old mopar book suggests, and maybe I should have. Any other suggestions? I hope i dont have to pull the timing cover again.

 

[condor74]

pull the valve covers and check to see if you bent push rods. I have had this happen. The valves kissed the pistons and bent several pushrods. I performed a leak down test and valves did not bend. New pushrods and was running smooth.

 

[Bruzilla]

Well after working on the Runner on the weekends, pulled the front all apart cleaned and painted the various parts with Mopar p4349217ab replaced the Harmonic balancer, oil pump (Probably not necessary) fuel pump, water pump etc. pulled the pan and cleaned. (Took the advise of many here that used the Windage tray with pre-molded gaskets) Lined up the timing gears, got the cover back on and hand cranked to number one compression stroke verified with finger in number one hole and timing mark seemed to be right on with zero, or within a degree or two anyway. put in the oil pump drive shaft with it parallel with center line of crank, installed distributor. Now here is where I need your help. She fired up after only two cranks even with new fuel line and new dry fuel filter, but running a little rough, not bad though, but fired up the timing light and it shows like 20-30 degrees off? If I bring the timing close to where it should be she almost stalls. So something is wrong. Ran out of time tonight and too frustrated now anyway. So now I am assuming either I am off by a tooth. (I was sure the marks were dead nuts on, but confess I did not use a straight edge as the old mopar book suggests, and maybe I should have. Any other suggestions? I hope i dont have to pull the timing cover again.

Sounds dumb, but make sure you're not off by one on your distributor wires. Had that problem when I picked up an engine from a shop in the 80s. Drove me nuts until I figured that out.

 

[Cranky]

Good idea on rechecking your spark plug wires and I'm kinda surprised to see a stock sprocket set in one after all these years lol. On the new ones, you just never know exactly where things are without using a degree wheel. When you use one, you find exact true TDC and set the cam exactly where it needs to be. That's why I always preach using one even on a stone stock build but you can still find true TDC by using a piston stop in the spark plug hole. At least this will tell you if your timing mark is at least close. If the mark is off, chances are your cam is off a bit too and if it is, stock timing settings may not be what the engine likes. If the cam is off by few degrees, all is not lost. Advancing a cam just moves the peak 'happiness' lower in the rpm range while retarding it moves it further up in the range and moving the cam can place the best distributor timing in a different spot too. First thing thing I'd do is to find true TDC and see where the factory mark on the balancer comes in at....

 

[runner74]

Well Didn't have much time this weekend. Verified top dead center and Timing actually seems ok. I think the Idea from
condor74 may be the answer? I am pulling the valve covers now. It initially starts and runs with what seems to me a miss or two. once the fast idle lets go hard to keep it running without giving it some gas. I thought these were non interference engines? Will report what I find.