Opinions: 440 - Street Build '72 RR/GTX

[bird blaster]

I was hoping for some assistance from the group. I have a '72 RR/GTX with non-numbers matching 440 engine. I would like to have the engine rebuilt next fall/winter and am starting the data collecting process of what I would like to do. All of this is very new to me so any help is appreciated. I am looking for a good quality street build and would like to be in the 425-450hp range with 500+ft/lb of torque. I would like the car to run on pump gas which the max local to me is 91 octane. Outside of adding TTi headers I am open to any options.

Current engine bay pics added for fun.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Krooser]

First I would ditch the headers...they are loud, like to leak and many are a pita to install and make changing plugs harder than needed

Use factory HP manifolds... unless you dyno your build you will never know the difference.

Don't fret about HP and torque #'s. Build and good, solid well thought out engine and the performance will be there.

First....find a GOOD machinist that has a stellar reputation among the Mopar crowd. You need a shop that works on everything...cars, trucks, industrial and farm equipment, etc. Someone who doesn't just do Chevy stuff. They have to be versatile and open to new ideas.

I have used three different shops for the last 15 years fir my builds. SBC motor for my sons dirt modified, J heads and block for an SBM dirt car, a 650 HP388" SBM for a dirt late model and a 671 blown 354 Hemi for my '56 F100.

Happy with all of them despite small issues that came up that were fixed.

I would build a stock stroke 440 with 915 heads. If you insist on aluminum heads buy GOOD stuff like Brodix or Trick Flow. I am not a fan of the cheap, Chinese heads from Speedmaster and others. Cheap valves, cheap seats, some have quality issues with machining, etc.

Find a camshaft that is ground for the Mopar 904 lifter diameter. Your factory cam is why go backwards on performance? You can get near the performance of a roller without any downside. Most cam outfits have those lobes in their catalog...if they want to sell you their shelf grinds move on.

And don't buy a cam based on a video of how the exhaust sounds on Joe Dirt's Charger/ Duster/Challenger/Toyota!!!

You don't need adjustable roller rockers with a hyd. cam. Unneeded bling IMHO. Stock rockers will last 100,000 miles.

A dual plane intake is what you need. Holley single feed or Edelbrock your choice. No more than a 750. My 413 came with a 585 cfm AFB and those engines ran great.

All those big cube motors sound neat until you have to put up with a 5 mpg, rough idling, hard to tune top fuel wannabe.

 

[bird blaster]

Thank you for your thoughts.

For the build I am going to be using Indy Auto in Laval Quebec. The engine will be on a dyno. I currently have headers on my '69 and do like the sound. I would like to keep a lot of the stock MOPAR parts as long as they can be used and will get me in to the HP/Torque range I would like.

 

[furious70]

I'll respectfully give a different view:
You could reach your goals with some Stealth heads, Edelbrock rpm performer intake, 750 carb, and headers. You could leave the short block alone. No need for a 'top fuel' cam or 5mpg.

 

[Canadian1968]

If your goal is 425-450 HP at the crank that's is really not difficult with 440. If that is rear wheel HP you want thebyour looking at a bit more work.

I would put my current setup in the 425HP range. ( never had it on a dyno)

440 block - .030 over ( 446)
Stock 906 heads - valve job and home ported
Comp cams xe275
Icon pistons
Stock crank
Stock rods
Stock rockers
Edelbrock rpm intake
750 holley VAC secondary
Hedman headers 1 3/4 primaries 3" collector
2.5" exhuast w/ X pipe
MP electronic distributor and ecu

That's it in a nutshell.

Nothing crazy, but still pulls nice and good street manners .

Current best at the track of 12.5 @ 106 mph on a set of slicks , for reference

 

[Runcharger]

Easy to achieve your goals. Great looking car you have there and I wouldn't mess up the stock underhood looks with unneeded aluminum heads and such. Mild pocket port on the stock heads, small hydraulic camshaft, keep compression above 9.1 and you'll make your goal easy. You have A/C and most likely 3.23's and a stock convertor so be careful when specing the camshaft. A stock 1970 440 Magnum probably made right around 400HP with a set of headers. One thing I would try to look for is an old Edelbrock CH4b intake, they look stock but add maybe 10HP. The modern Performer intakes don't add anything over a stock manifold and the Perform RPM don't look stock at all and make using an aircleaner a challenge without hitting the hood.

 

[RemCharger]

Thank you for your thoughts.

For the build I am going to be using Indy Auto in Laval Quebec. The engine will be on a dyno. I currently have headers on my '69 and do like the sound. I would like to keep a lot of the stock MOPAR parts as long as they can be used and will get me in to the HP/Torque range I would like.

Isn't that Nick's shop? He's a member on here.
He's the one that will easily answer your questions.

 

[Joske2]

Isn't that Nick's shop? He's a member on here.
He's the one that will easily answer your questions.

Yep, it is.

He should now how to build it.

 

[496 polara]

Very nice ride! There is 10 different answers to your question but here is a proven template for what you are looking for. I used a lot of his recommendations on my existing shortblock in my duster as it has a fresh motor.

STEALTH Head Update.... A "lowly" 440 Street Engine

It is hard to argue his work and experience. He is a member here as well.

 

[bird blaster]

Very nice ride! There is 10 different answers to your question but here is a proven template for what you are looking for. I used a lot of his recommendations on my existing shortblock in my duster as it has a fresh motor.

STEALTH Head Update.... A "lowly" 440 Street Engine

It is hard to argue his work and experience. He is a member here as well.

Yup. Nick is doing it.

I'm here looking for information so I can do some reading and learning about what sorts of things will get me the numbers I want. I know Nick is a wealth of knowledge and just want to have an informed discussion.

 

[bird blaster]

Very nice ride! There is 10 different answers to your question but here is a proven template for what you are looking for. I used a lot of his recommendations on my existing shortblock in my duster as it has a fresh motor.

STEALTH Head Update.... A "lowly" 440 Street Engine

It is hard to argue his work and experience. He is a member here as well.

Thank you for sharing that link!!

 

[bird blaster]

Easy to achieve your goals. Great looking car you have there and I wouldn't mess up the stock underhood looks with unneeded aluminum heads and such. Mild pocket port on the stock heads, small hydraulic camshaft, keep compression above 9.1 and you'll make your goal easy. You have A/C and most likely 3.23's and a stock convertor so be careful when specing the camshaft. A stock 1970 440 Magnum probably made right around 400HP with a set of headers. One thing I would try to look for is an old Edelbrock CH4b intake, they look stock but add maybe 10HP. The modern Performer intakes don't add anything over a stock manifold and the Perform RPM don't look stock at all and make using an aircleaner a challenge without hitting the hood.

Thanks!!

I want to keep the stock look (plus it minus manifolds) AC and my rear is 3.55

 

[Canadian1968]

Very nice ride! There is 10 different answers to your question but here is a proven template for what you are looking for. I used a lot of his recommendations on my existing shortblock in my duster as it has a fresh motor.

STEALTH Head Update.... A "lowly" 440 Street Engine

It is hard to argue his work and experience. He is a member here as well.

What my build was based on......

 

[OldGuyGTX]

The Mrs and I lived back in, and drove 60s MoPars, her a 68 Charger R/T and me a 69hemi rr, we both enjoy watching Nick's garage on you tube. Nick builds whatever his customers want, today's show was a 360 stroker 408, that put up factory 426 hemi numbers using a double pumper. This build included aluminum intake, aluminum heads, headers and IIRC, a Lunati VooDoo cam.

I'd ditch cast iron, intake, heads and exhaust manifold, save 100 pounds??? off the front end. Performer RPM intakes are great, but Torkers sit lower for better hood fit and they give up minimal low end torque, TrickFlow 240s have an excellent reputation for quality/performance and they can be ordered with CNC work already done. Put a TF 240 next to an Edelbrock RPM head and the difference is noticable, the OP already has headers, so it's a moot issue.

If Nick were to ask me my goals for a 440 engine build, I'd answer, "I want to walk Chevelle 454s", headers are installed too, with a Dana 60 4.10.

 

[lewtot184]

There are so many different opinions on what a "street build" is. For me I don't want anything I can't reasonably drive and maintain. I just don't have the zeal anymore to chase every last pony. I've witnessed folks do a lot without a lot. Both of my cars are at the opposite end of what I call "street build", but both sre reliable pump gas drivers.

 

[BSB67]

Here are your three priorities and most important choices: Compression (Piston/Head choice), Heads (Flow), and camshaft.

Then you need to balance personal priorities with your budget.

The head and compression is realy simple but you have a lot of options and you simply need to decide (priorities and budget) what you want. Appropriately preped Stealths, 915s, 906. or..... will work for your goal. Stealths are the easiest and most bang for the buck choice. Factory heads can get you there to, but will probably cost more than the Stealths in the end. Then pick the piston accordingly. 10.5:1 or less for aluminum head, or 9.5:1 with a factory iron head. There are obviously other after market heads as well, but you indicated that you want a factory look. Stealth heads will get you that in an aluminum after market.

The cam size choice is pretty easy too, although you'll get 100 different opinions from 100 people. Some of them will be good, others, maybe not. High level: < 280 degrees advertised duration, less than 230 degrees @ 0.050", about 0.500" lift, and an overlap of 50 degrees or less. Just one man's opinion. Good luck.

Today, I would say that the biggest initial choice/decision you will need to make is, in your case, a hydraulic flat tappet, or a hydraulic roller. The flat tappet is far less expensive, but catastrophic failures are higher. Again, good luck.

 

[Wietse]

If you going to have your engine build at Nick's just tell him what you want and he will get it for you.
Have not seen a single video where he did not achieve the target on hp/tq, vacuum and all other parameters he aimed for.

 

[bird blaster]

Here are your three priorities and most important choices: Compression (Piston/Head choice), Heads (Flow), and camshaft.

Then you need to balance personal priorities with your budget.

The head and compression is realy simple but you have a lot of options and you simply need to decide (priorities and budget) what you want. Appropriately preped Stealths, 915s, 906. or..... will work for your goal. Stealths are the easiest and most bang for the buck choice. Factory heads can get you there to, but will probably cost more than the Stealths in the end. Then pick the piston accordingly. 10.5:1 or less for aluminum head, or 9.5:1 with a factory iron head. There are obviously other after market heads as well, but you indicated that you want a factory look. Stealth heads will get you that in an aluminum after market.

The cam size choice is pretty easy too, although you'll get 100 different opinions from 100 people. Some of them will be good, others, maybe not. High level: < 280 degrees advertised duration, less than 230 degrees @ 0.050", about 0.500" lift, and an overlap of 50 degrees or less. Just one man's opinion. Good luck.

Today, I would say that the biggest initial choice/decision you will need to make is, in your case, a hydraulic flat tappet, or a hydraulic roller. The flat tappet is far less expensive, but catastrophic failures are higher. Again, good luck.

Thanks!!! Lots for me to review with this!

 

[bird blaster]

If you going to have your engine build at Nick's just tell him what you want and he will get it for you.
Have not seen a single video where he did not achieve the target on hp/tq, vacuum and all other parameters he aimed for.

This is VERY true. I know he said it wouldn't be a problem

I just want to be somewhat educated and do some research so that I can have an informed discussion

 

[lewtot184]

Know your starting point. Know exactly what you have now so you have a clear path to where you're going. Personally I'm not in to somebody other than me build my stuff. I don't get lost in the videos no matter who's they are. Majority of the time I leave these shows, videos, magazine articles wondering "why did you do that"? Through the years I've had far more trouble fixing the "motor messiahs" screw ups than my own.