Pertronix, distributors, and the mothers of invention...

[wmmcewen]

So.... I thought I would install an electronic ignition module (Pertronix Ignitor II)... I had good intentions...
I went and bought a stock factory distributor (wanted to retain all those stock components in a box, Im weird that way) and anxiously awaited for the FedEx dude. Shipment arrives, module, Flame Thrower coil, and a Saturday afternoon...
Pull distributor after taking 20 photos for proper re-installation. Going well or so I thought.
Well. Petronix unit does not fit. The module plate's center hole is too small to go over distributor shaft. 10 minutes with a Dremel and a file, it fits. But wait, the slotted hole is too short to allow me to get the proper air gap from rotator and pick-up. Out with the Dremel, and off and on and file and off and on and file and off and on and screw and off and one and file and screw and it fits.
Red wire to + coil. Black wire to ground. New cap, reconnect battery, a dash of gas and.... nothing. Chek photos. Looks right, and nothing. A twisy yo advance and noting. A twist to retard and nothing. pull wire, check spark, weak spark. Add ground wire from battery to chassis, and Whoosh! Fire! But car wont start. Twist, grind twist, grind, twist, grind, repeat as needed.
Give up. Go drink beer. Come back after battery charger puts me at 100% again. Twist, grind fires! Rough idle, throw timing light on, my old bad eyes cant see the mark, glasses dont help, 22 yr old son cant see the mark, where is the mark? I dont know I cant see it. Let it run, slowly move to distributor around and get a somewhat smooth idle and the light now shows 15° btdc. Ok, sounds like a good time to cut if off and restart it and.... nothing.

Should I start all over again or just buy an already converted distributor or I dont know what the hell to do... I dont know if the Petronix unit is scrwing it up. I know its got enough ground. Everything is as it should be and nothing is happening....

Color me: frustrated.

 

[eric383]

Do you have the ballast resistor bypassed? This runs best with full voltage. I just had a Flamethrower coil go bad on me after a few years. It was the epoxy version and was causing a weak spark. Do you have another coil to try?

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

I had the exact same issue! Got my Ignitor II and Flamethrower coil installed no problem, ballast bypassed, good grounds, about 15° btdc and it would fire and run decent but couldn't get a good idle. Kept trying to tune everything and slowly got worse and worse each time to the point where it would barely even fire. Checked spark and it's nearly-non-existant weak.

I talked to a friend of mine that owns Muscle Car Alley Parts and Restoration and does this stuff for a living, and he told me he had the same issue with his '69 Hemi Roadrunner as well as 3 past customers' cars and it came down to the Pertronix module crapping out. I took his advice swapped points back into my distributor and it fired right off and ran awesome. He's got the mopar orange box setup and set it works great so I'm planning on picking that up soon too.

He said he's had good experiences with Pertronix in the past but lately there must be some quality-control issues going on or something. Interesting to see more people having the same issues as us

 

[wmmcewen]

First, thank you eric383 and Mr. Speedfreak for your replies.
I dont know how to bypass the ballast. I'm a GM guy (dont hate) and am used to HEI distributors and their electronics. Ballast resistor? WTH is that?! =)

I dont have another coil to try, not that I'm against buying another one. I just looked, and this is what's wired: I have the red lead from the PerII unit going to the positive + post of the FT-coil, and the black lead going to the negative - post of the coil, per the instructions that came with the PerII unit. When I put the new ground strap from battery to frame, it really helped and I was able to actually fire it up, drive it around the block a few times. But then, it started becoming impossible to start. Dont want to smoke my starter (I'm not against buying a new one of those either, but I digress) and so, here I am.
I thought an electronic ignition would be the cat's meow. It started everytime before (I should add now that it did not have a points distributor but rather some electronic module in it) but then it would barely idle and the timing was seemingly here then there. Which is why I decided to put in the PerII unit, hearing a lot of good things about it (I had one in my 69 Triumph GT6 2+2 about a decade ago and it fired fine)

The car has the 318 in it, a little 272 cam, Edelbrock SP2 intake, Holly 600, headers. For the last 6 months its had its hood open more than closed, and Im tired of it being like that... I want to drive the damn thing, not brush the dust off of it every day.

Mr Speedfreak, I'd be interested in knowing about the Orange box system...

 

[coloradodave]

I feel your pain, but as I've gotten older I hope I've gotten smarter. When the module's plate wouldn't fit over the distributor's shaft it was time to stop and contact the supplier or Pertronix. Something was obviously wrong and it wasn't your job to modify the kit to make it work. I used to do this myself and then one day it dawned on me that if I buy a product that purports to fit my car, and it doesn't, it then becomes the manufacturer / supplier's problem, not mine.
Good luck getting this figured out.

 

[Meep-Meep]

I had fit up issues with the Pertronix on a Prestolite distributor, which was mildly annoying, but electrically they always worked for me. Looking at your OP I see you said you hooked the red wire to + coil and black wire to ground. The red wire is OK but the black wire DOES NOT go to ground - or at least on my older Pertronix units it doesn't. The black wire goes to the coil neg (-).

The Pertroniox gets it power from the red wire and the mounting plate, which is ground through the distributor body. I will add that the breaker plate MUST HAVE a good ground connection. So if you have a Prestolite distributor make sure that little braided wire is connected between the movable plate and the stationary plate. The black wire from the Pertronix is the trigger (or pulsed path to ground) that saturates the coil.

You can test the Pertronix with a 9V battery and a small low wattage 12V light bulb. Hook the red wire to the (+) of the 9V battery and the (-) to the Pertronix mounting plate. The light bulb will connect to the red wire and the black wire (not ground). You can get a lamp socket or just solder wires to the bulb. As you pass a magnet across the hall sensor the light will go on.

 

[eric383]

The ballast resistor is the small white oblong block usually mounted on the firewall. To bypass this either run a jumper between the 2 connectors on the ballast resistor or if you want this bypass hidden, take a short piece of 12 gauge wire and solder it across the connectors on the back side of the ballast res. Good luck. We have all been there and it can be quite frustrating. I have found that beer seems to help along with closing the garage door and walking away.

 

[wmmcewen]

Coloradodave, thanks for your reply and, yes I know I should have called someone but it seemed such a small issue. Having worked in a manufacturing environment I know how sometimes things can get off and just thought to correct it myself. The fact the the car was running after the installation seemed to weigh things out.
Meep-Meep http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/member.php?440-Meep-MeepAnd thank you for your reply as well. In my OP I did say that black went to ground, but I should have clarified that the black went to negative - post on the coil, which was what I was trying to convey. I will try the 9v test later today or tomorrow and see whats what.
eric383 So youre saying I just need to jump the resistor?

 

[eric383]

As Phil Hartman would say......You are correct sir!

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Imterested to see if you can make it work, nothing I did helped mine. I jumped the ballast connections as mentioned and had everything wired correctly, just wasn't making any spark.