Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger

[Kern Dog]

I have a few old pumps in the shed. I'll look and see if I kept the used one from the previous build.

 

[4406bbl]

If the blue wire at the regulator sees any resistance in the wiring, bulkhead, ignition switch, and the like it will think the battery is low and keep charging. It is wise on older cars to use a relay to feed the regulator directly from the battery. When we do regulator swaps on computer controlled vehicles this step is critical to not boil the batteries. I also just bought 2 new standard ignition regulators and had to return them, one charged at 14.74 volts, the other at 15.03, with a heat gun on them. Both were at 15.5 cold, something wrong with the calibration. I ended up with an adjustable regulator set at 14.3, the only issue with those is they do not adjust the voltage up when cold and down when hot.

 

[PRHeads]

I have a few old pumps in the shed. I'll look and see if I kept the used one from the previous build.

A HV pump will have the stiffer spring.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

KD, you've had that car for many years. You did do the MAD Electrical wiring upgrade, didn't you? Since I did, I haven't had issues. The link has a good diagram.
Catalog

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[PRHeads]

If you can’t find one, they’re still available:

Mopar Performance P4286571 Mopar Performance Oil Pressure Relief Springs | Summit Racing

 

[Kern Dog]

KD, you've had that car for many years. You did do the MAD Electrical wiring upgrade, didn't you? Since I did, I haven't had issues. The link has a good diagram.
Catalog

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Oh yeah...
I have aftermarket gauges with a voltmeter too.

I blame the MP electronic ignition setup. I've had coils conk out, the pickup in the distributor and ECUs too.

 

[moparedtn]

Funny....
I've run nothing but the Mopar electronic ignition kit on my big block cars for decades now,
all with either the "conversion" electronic regulator or with the factory electronic one wired in
and never had a problem with any of it.

Ever.

 

[Kern Dog]

The distributor that I have is the one that Rick Ehrenberg rails against every chance he gets. Mine is just reliable enough to let me forget that it breaks down.
It could be a matter of loose connections. Often times, I'll change a part and when it runs, I credit the replacement part.

 

[moparedtn]

I will admit, I've not used any of the Mopar branded stuff from the last decade or so....
I'm a bit of a hunter for new, yet old stuff by nature and that certainly applies to this stuff.

I think the last distributor I bought though, a few years back, was the last one apparently
in the country on a parts shelf - an A1/Cardone rebuilt unit that they had obsoleted a year
prior. I got word of this through an old wholesaler and went searching and found (1) left.
Only paid like $50 w/shipping all told, too - but I'm guessing warranty claims would be an
issue.

 

[hunt2elk]

and never had a problem with any of it.

Ever.

You know Ed, you should never make statements like that....

 

[Kern Dog]

I like that even after all these years, I’m still learning stuff.
I had it in my head that I’d just spend the money and order a high volume oil pump. I’ve never paid much attention to these other than to pack them with assembly lube to prime them before a fresh fire and to dissect them after a tear down. I knew nothing of the importance of the spring inside. Seeing Nick add a thin washer between the spring and the bolt was an eye opener. Dwayne Porter suggested the spring change.
I grabbed my old HV pump from the scrap pile.

The 15/16" bolt comes off.

Is it really as simple as this little spring?

Access with the pump in the car isn't bad. A Stubby 15/16" wrench fit in there. Quickie job.

Cold fast idle....just shy of 74 PSI.

Next up, I adjusted the rear float. The booklet that came with the carb stated that after adjustment..... to lower the fuel level, the fuel needs to be used up. Instead of that, I backed out a bowl screw and let some gas drain into a towel. I'll go for a drive soon and see how the change affects the stalling issue.

 

[padam]

I like that even after all these years, I’m still learning stuff.
I had it in my head that I’d just spend the money and order a high volume oil pump. I’ve never paid much attention to these other than to pack them with assembly lube to prime them before a fresh fire and to dissect them after a tear down. I knew nothing of the importance of the spring inside. Seeing Nick add a thin washer between the spring and the bolt was an eye opener. Dwayne Porter suggested the spring change.
I grabbed my old HV pump from the scrap pile.

View attachment 1380798

The 15/16" bolt comes off.

View attachment 1380799View attachment 1380800

Is it really as simple as this little spring?

View attachment 1380801View attachment 1380802

Access with the pump in the car isn't bad. A Stubby 15/16" wrench fit in there. Quickie job.

Cold fast idle....just shy of 74 PSI.

View attachment 1380803

Next up, I adjusted the rear float. The booklet that came with the carb stated that after adjustment..... to lower the fuel level, the fuel needs to be used up. Instead of that, I backed out a bowl screw and let some gas drain into a towel. I'll go for a drive soon and see how the change affects the stalling issue.

Or if you’re like me, relearning stuff you knew but forgot.

 

[Kern Dog]

I run the HV pump with a lower pressure red spring

This is the spring I pulled out of the standard pump.
This looks purple to me.

With the different spring, The idle pressure when I am up to temperature is above 20 but not by much. It is about 35 at cruise around 1800-1900. Pressure does rise quicker. The most obvious change was cold pressure.
I spun the rear float adjuster nut a full turn but it wasn’t enough.
More to come.

 

[moparedtn]

You know Ed, you should never make statements like that....

OH trust me, I knocked wood (my head, mostly) whilst typing it...

 

[beanhead]

I started typing something, but got distracted by this pop-up ad:

 

[moparedtn]

This is the spring I pulled out of the standard pump.
This looks purple to me.

View attachment 1380866

With the different spring, The idle pressure when I am up to temperature is above 20 but not by much. It is about 35 at cruise around 1800-1900. Pressure does rise quicker. The most obvious change was cold pressure.
I spun the rear float adjuster nut a full turn but it wasn’t enough.
More to come.

What exactly is/are the differences in the two springs? Stiffness? Length? Wire gauge?

 

[moparedtn]

I started typing something, but got distracted by this pop-up ad:

View attachment 1380867

Dunno why anyone gets ads on this site (or any site) when there's several quality blockers out there...

 

[beanhead]

Okay where was I...oh yeah...I'm with ya Greg I don't think I'd be completely warm and fuzzy with those pressures at hot rolling RPM, at those clearances. Slide a washer or stiffer spring in there and see what you get. That may very well solve the issue.
On my current build I initially had doubts about my Idle pressures (was only getting around 12-15psi, BUT my stuff is quite a bit looser than yours at .0028 on the rods and .0030-.0032 on the mains.)
Hot rolling was into the 60s and topping out about 70 so I was okay with that.
I do use an HV pump, regardless of what "internet wisdom" says about power loss...I wanted the additional flow at all RPMs.
I shimmed my spring and (surprisingly) gained a few psi throughout the range, even at idle, although "in theory" that should only change the high-end numbers. Pressure readings are what they are because that's all we have...we don't have flow transmitters in our engines, and flow past the bearings/parts is really what's important. As we know pressure is just resistance to flow.
So, 15-50 Driven oil and several thousand (not easy!) miles later, it's still happy..

 

[QuickBpBp]

I just read about the cam and the wiped lobes… Had a 440 wipe 2 lobes on a MP 528 decades ago… Pulled the motor build another short block and put that motor in with the top end off the other and a new cam.. Years later I tore the short block apart and the crank and bearings were perfect which told me all that metal was in the filter.. Even the oil pump rotor assembly looked like new. I don’t doubt that you will find the same once you open up the bottom end..

 

[beanhead]

Dunno why anyone gets ads on this site (or any site) when there's several quality blockers out there...

These "ad blockers" are just more crap taking up space on my system...it's bloated enough already, thanks to Gates and his team of techtards....and anyway, I wasn't necessarily "complaining" about the ad in question!
The wife's gonna get it good tonight!