Remove Torque Converter Weight in the car?

[68.Charger]

Okay, I got myself in a bit of a mess and need some ideas, thoughts, advice, and whatever

A little background - I have a 70 Road Runner with a 6 barrel motor. I have never had the motor apart so I don't know what crank & pistons it has in it. The 727 has always had a issue with the 2 to 3 shift and the car has had a small vibration issue around 3,000 rpm. The 727 issue has only gotten worse over time so I decided to drop the transmission and have one rebuilt. When I took it out I noticed the motor has a 6 BBL harmonic balancer (external balanced right?) but the torque converter and flexplate were neutral balanced.

I thought I had found my vibration issue and ordered a Hughes balanced converter with a weight on it. Well this setup combo caused a massive vibration from 1500 rpm and up. Way too much to even think of driving the car that way.

It seems I maybe should have replaced the harmonic balancer with an internal one?

When I spoke with Hughes tech support they mentioned I could remove the weight and the converter would be neutral balanced. I am looking for ideas on how to remove the weight without dropping the transmission. I can access it by removing the lower cover but what to use to get it off?

Maybe that's not the right path so any and all ideas are welcome.
Thanks!

 

[440Coronet500]

Yes, you can remove the balance mass from the torque converter. Just a couple light blows with a chisel should remove it. Inspect the damper to make sure the ring hasn't slipped. Do not change the damper to a internally balanced damper. If that is the real 440 six pack engine it has the 6 pack heavy rods that require the external balance damper. 440'

 

[493 Mike]

With enough patience you might be able to use a cutoff wheel in a 4 1/2" grinder, taking slices, a blade width apart until it will come off with a sharp chisel. Sort of like making a dado in a piece of wood with a standard table saw blade.
Mike

 

[Fran Blacker]

Did Hughes lay a bead or dimple from a spot welder? If chisel doesn't work and have spot welds, drill them.

 

[68.Charger]

Did Hughes lay a bead or dimple from a spot welder? If chisel doesn't work and have spot welds, drill them.

They put down a bead weld on both sides of the weight. I would say about 3/4" long. That was my concern with just trying to knock it off with a chisel. Hopefully I can get my cutoff wheel in there....

 

[68.Charger]

Yes, you can remove the balance mass from the torque converter. Just a couple light blows with a chisel should remove it. Inspect the damper to make sure the ring hasn't slipped. Do not change the damper to a internally balanced damper. If that is the real 440 six pack engine it has the 6 pack heavy rods that require the external balance damper. 440'

I don't know if the internals are 6 pack or not. Maybe I will remove the TC weight and see how it drives after that.

Any idea what kind of vibration you would feel if you had and external balancer on an internal balanced engine?

 

[440Coronet500]

Oh, you'll know it will be very noticeable! 440'

 

[Fran Blacker]

I'd try to cut one weld and see if you can pry weigh up and break it off. Smooth down any sharp edges, don't I'll do it later. Maybe a sawz-all would work??

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Not 100 percent sure but with a steel crank I would think the convertor balancing is no different then on a 6 pack vs a pre 72 440 w steel crank. The appearance is different between a 73 and newer damper and 6 pack and you need to verify what you have before you grind any. I was thinking the harmonic balancer is balanced for the 6 pack rods only...not the flywheel or torque convertor. I will look in the mopar engine book when I get a chance.
Every time we have ground off a weight off a convertor we were still left w a vibration...but one can get lucky.

 

[68.Charger]

Thanks, all I wanted to do was get rid of a driveline vibration and I ended up only making things worse. Kind of frustrating when you think you have it all figured out and Bam it kicks you in the ***.

 

[Don Frelier]

A dissenting opinion.
I'd take it apart and put a different converter on if that is what it needs.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

If its a steel crank and a cast crank damper was installed it would vibrate. If the damper is toast usually the belts brake or you can not keep the belts on but it can vibrate but I'd say rarely.

The other possibility is the tranny was switched and the converter is mismatched for the engine. You should be able to look at the year of the block...and damper unless someone switched the crank then its a guess.

 

[Mike67]

Just out of curiosity, did you try reclocking your original converter? I've never done it and can't say unequivocally that it would work but if you only have it at a certain rpm that TC may just have that perfect harmonic at that RPM in its current position.

 

[forphorty]

Just out of curiosity, did you try reclocking your original converter? I've never done it and can't say unequivocally that it would work but if you only have it at a certain rpm that TC may just have that perfect harmonic at that RPM in its current position.

Offset lug. The converter will only go on one way.

 

[68.Charger]

If its a steel crank and a cast crank damper was installed it would vibrate. If the damper is toast usually the belts brake or you can not keep the belts on but it can vibrate but I'd say rarely.

The other possibility is the tranny was switched and the converter is mismatched for the engine. You should be able to look at the year of the block...and damper unless someone switched the crank then its a guess.

The block is a late 69 HP block but is not numbers matching to the car. I would say it was originally a 440 4BBL block that sometime in its life was made to be a 6BBL to go with the car's VIN, buildsheet etc.

The tranny is a 72 out of a B-body. The TC I am trying to use is new from Hughes Performance and is a 400/440 balanced 2500 stall converter.

I don't think the harmonic balancer is toast. it looks good and no wobble or belts coming off. I just found it oddd to have a 6 BBL balancer with the offset weight on it but a neutral balance converter and flexplate. I did not think this was valid combo. I am not sure of the year on balancer without pulling it.

 

[68.Charger]

Offset lug. The converter will only go on one way.

Correct, it will only install one way on the flexplate

 

[Mike67]

Offset lug. The converter will only go on one way.

I thought they were concentric. I guess I got lucky when I installed mine,they all lined up...

 

[khryslerkid]

Study these closely

http://www.440source.com/dampers.htm

 

[killtoy]

dont drill it , dont pry it just grind it off , it wont make heat enough to damage anything, safest way to go , been there done that

 

[Curiousyellow71]

If its stamped later half of 69 its likely a 70 engine and could have 6 pack rods and the special 6 pack damper. All the 69 engines including the 6 pack used ly rods and they all had the neutral balanced damper.
Iy sounds like you have figured out your hughes convertor is for bb externally balanced and is likely your vibration if you have a steel crank yet.. Hughes 2500 are right around 300 bucks, buy the right one for your engine...neutral balanced and find a new home for yours. You can grind it but it likely will still vibrate and then its good to no one....that is my suggestion.