Seasoned block?

[Satellite65]

My own cars....
my current build 440 was cast 04/66 and the stamp pad has it shown installed into a 67 "C440". My 69 road runner 383 was cast in 68, my 67 sattelite 318 has 66 cast date as well.
I also read this in "if memory serves" Allpar.

Yeah but bear in mind that back then the '67s came out in late '66 and so on.......

I honestly don't think the factory cared all that much. If a block was laying around for any length of time, it's only because they hadn't gotten to it yet. Maybe it was on the botton of the pile!!! As long as it was cool to the touch, off to the machine shop it went and when it was done being assembled it was straight to the line to be dropped in a car.

 

[696pack]

Yeah but bear in mind that back then the '67s came out in late '66 and so on.......

I honestly don't think the factory cared all that much. If a block was laying around for any length of time, it's only because they hadn't gotten to it yet. Maybe it was on the botton of the pile!!! As long as it was cool to the touch, off to the machine shop it went and when it was done being assembled it was straight to the line to be dropped in a car.

This is all true.

BUT, is the C440 the supposed original engine in a 67 GTX or R/T?

The only 1966 440s were installed in "C" bodies and were the LP engines. A 4/66 cast engine would have been built for a 1966 model car and VERY unlikely it would have been stamped as a C440 (1967) engine. However, It could have been an older engine that did not get properly stock rotated and got assembled during the 67 model year.

Never say never.

The problem is that with a 67 car that had no V.I.N. stamping to prove it as an original engine and having to rely on "acceptable" date code correct casting date it would be looked at skeptically.

 

[67 B-body]

This is all true.

BUT, is the C440 the supposed original engine in a 67 GTX or R/T?

The only 1966 440s were installed in "C" bodies and were the LP engines. A 4/66 cast engine would have been built for a 1966 model car and VERY unlikely it would have been stamped as a C440 (1967) engine. However, It could have been an older engine that did not get properly stock rotated and got assembled during the 67 model year.

Never say never.

The problem is that with a 67 car that had no V.I.N. stamping to prove it as an original engine and having to rely on "acceptable" date code correct casting date it would be looked at skeptically.

Read carefully in my last post.
I didnt say the engine was from my car... I said the current build 440 engine has a C 440 on the stamp pad.
It has a untouched appearance to it as well.... I have no reason to believe it has been altered because it was not in the original car when I got it. It was used for bracket racing by the previous owner. If it had been in a restored car of the same year I would agree with you. My cars original engine is as stated a 318 and is definately original. I am the second owner and it has lower miles and I have every type of documentation from the dealers order option sheet when originaly ordered to the certi card and every registration from day one. it has a casted date of 1966. My 69 Road runner might have had an engine change,,, but I dont know for sure,,, it was casted 68.
It's just the way it is,,, take it for what it's worth...???

 

[Satellite65]

There are 440's out there with a '65 date code cast onto the block. They went into '66 production year vehicles. Caused a stir over on another website.

 

[696pack]

A previous year casting date is not at all unusual in the next years model car as the plant start up was usually in August of the previous year to the year of the next year car model.
E.g. August 1965 plant production for 1966 model year car. Most cars built in August were for dealer car shows and promotional purposes such as factory brochures and for new model intros in hot rod mags. The new cars were introduced/available for sale on October 1 1965. 1965 casting dates are quite common into Marxh of 1966.

My point in this post is A 4/66 cast engine (which is typically way too early for a 67 model year car) would have been built for a 1966 model car and VERY unlikely it would have been stamped as a C440 (1967) engine. However, I did say it could have been an older engine that did not get properly stock rotated and got assembled during the 67 model year.

 

[Cranky]

Wow, this did get off topic lol. As for casting dates...I used to run a small wrecking yard and only dealt with Mopars....specific ones at that with most of them being E body and a few B's as well. This was in the mid 70's and ran into the early 80's when you could pick this stuff up for dirt cheap. One of my better scores was a 70 340 Rallye Challenger with the 15x7's and rear window louvers...anyways, I lost count on how many cars I parted buy none of them had a same year date coded engine...not that it really matters but just saying....

 

[67 GTX]

I have heard many tales about race engine blocks being burried in the ground to season ? any truth ? any personal stories ?

i've heard that too
smokey unic (spelled that wrong) used to do that

 

[moparstuart]

i've heard that too
smokey unic (spelled that wrong) used to do that

I have heard tail of it from some of the old nascar grand national builders

 

[696pack]

They likely had NEW blocks they were doing this to. I really doubt that it did any good to do this. The heat cycles of a running engine being started run and shutting down would settle anything in the cast block that that was not already set.

 

[Satellite65]

I would think that a proper heat treating procedure would be more beneficial then burying a block in the ground or leaving it out to rust.

Detroit may have extreme weather cycles, but I highly doubt that it's anywhere near enough to make even a slight bit of difference.

If i was really worried about it, I'd take the block over to my local powder coater and let him bring it up to 200* and let it cool a couple of times. That oughta do it!!!

 

[Southernman]

Guys,

the definition of a seasoned block simply means a used block that has no significant defects from neglect/abuse or catastrophic failures over the course of it's life cycle. A good used block is preferred because thermally cycling the casting (driving the car) will result in settling, or shifting, of the core over time, and will provide a solid platform for future machining and builds - because the casting will have 'settled'.

In other words, as a machinist and builder, you can rest assured that there will be no (or minimal) additional core shift during the machining, build, and operation of your fresh engine.

Remember, a brand new casting that has not been thermally cycled, will tend to settle/shift once it's thermally cycled. If you start with a new (non-race) casting and complete your machining tasks to support a "brand new" build, there's a chance core shift, from thermal cycling, could haunt you later in the form of failed head gaskets; excessive leak down on some, or many, cylinders; erratic bearing wear patterns; etc. Ask me how I know...

I can also tell you this; the newer, high nickel, race blocks do not suffer from the same kind of core shift we're used to seeing in the older castings, especially the World Products castings from Bill Mitchell. Unfortunately, Chrysler found someone that will do these block for a few bucks cheaper than Mitchell, so we can all expect another round of casting failures, as Chryslers 'bean counters' give the new foundry and opportunity to "flush out" their casting issues - over time - and at our expense... Anybody remember how the original siamesed castings failed ? Well, Chrysler's at it again...

This "seasoned blocks" discussion applies mostly to our "older" stock of engine blocks and most non-race castings.

I hope this helps.

Southernman

 

[Cranky]

I would think that a proper heat treating procedure would be more beneficial then burying a block in the ground or leaving it out to rust.

Detroit may have extreme weather cycles, but I highly doubt that it's anywhere near enough to make even a slight bit of difference.

If i was really worried about it, I'd take the block over to my local powder coater and let him bring it up to 200* and let it cool a couple of times. That oughta do it!!!

Have you ever shot a temp gun at a hunk of iron that's been out in the Texas sun all day? lol

 

[Satellite65]

Guys,

the definition of a seasoned block simply means a used block that has no significant defects from neglect/abuse or catastrophic failures over the course of it's life cycle. A good used block is preferred because thermally cycling the casting (driving the car) will result in settling, or shifting, of the core over time, and will provide a solid platform for future machining and builds - because the casting will have 'settled'.

In other words, as a machinist and builder, you can rest assured that there will be no (or minimal) additional core shift during the machining, build, and operation of your fresh engine.

Remember, a brand new casting that has not been thermally cycled, will tend to settle/shift once it's thermally cycled. If you start with a new (non-race) casting and complete your machining tasks to support a "brand new" build, there's a chance core shift, from thermal cycling, could haunt you later in the form of failed head gaskets; excessive leak down on some, or many, cylinders; erratic bearing wear patterns; etc. Ask me how I know...

I can also tell you this; the newer, high nickel, race blocks do not suffer from the same kind of core shift we're used to seeing in the older castings, especially the World Products castings from Bill Mitchell. Unfortunately, Chrysler found someone that will do these block for a few bucks cheaper than Mitchell, so we can all expect another round of casting failures, as Chryslers 'bean counters' give the new foundry and opportunity to "flush out" their casting issues - over time - and at our expense... Anybody remember how the original siamesed castings failed ? Well, Chrysler's at it again...

This "seasoned blocks" discussion applies mostly to our "older" stock of engine blocks and most non-race castings.

I hope this helps.

Southernman

I agree.

Like I said earlier, any 40+ year old block thats been run around a bit and sonic checks/mags OK is going to be fine. Anything that was going to happen to it as a result of casting flaws or core shift would have happened a long time ago. I think some people put way too much thought into this stuff.