Should I install PCV valve?

[2quick]

.262/.262 @ .050
.645/.645 w 1.5 rocker
108 LSA

I've seen and heard a lot of people running Vac Pumps on the street with no adverse affects but they were mostly Chevy guys but that shouldn't matter.

Has anyone seen or made a Vac Pump valve cover Baffle that works? Pics would be great.

 

[2quick]

Yeah - can't pull from the valley like Andy said. There's little reason on a street car to run a vacuum pump. I'd think unless the camshaft is really radical the factory PCV system and breather would be sufficient.

Not sure I understand the condensation part. Why would the vacuum pump create condensation more then not having one or vs a PCV system and where would that condensation be accumulating? Inside the block?

 

[67Charger]

I'll jump in here, since I have similar questions... I run a simple Moroso breather in the VC through a 1/2" hose to the bottom-side of the air filter base. The other VC is sealed. System seems to be fine - vents fumes and pulls a tiny bit of vacuum due to filter resistance, but doesn't seem to affect engine performance. Yes, I get oil in it, but that is due to a complete lack of baffles before the breather, which I am remedying this weekend.

Is there an advantage to putting a PCV into the other VC, and does it go to the 3/8 port at the base of the throttle body?

 

[moper]

Not sure I understand the condensation part. Why would the vacuum pump create condensation more then not having one or vs a PCV system and where would that condensation be accumulating? Inside the block?

Condensation is a none issue. There is none in a running temperature engine at atmospheric, under a vacuum, or under pressure.
Guys running a breather line into the air cleaner are not doing enough IMO. A PCV flows more due to the vacuum provided under the throttle blades. There are no downsides to a PCV, unless the engine has a lot of blow-by. Which is not the PCV system's issue to deal with anyway.
My understanding of the use of, and need for a vacuum pump is to keep the rings seated on the cylinder walls and pistons better. That's how it aids power. It's not for leaks or anything else. It helps keep the rings stable and oil from contaminating the chamber.

 

[biomedtechguy]

You need to solve the baffle problem either with the vacuum pump or with a PCV. In both cases you'll be pulling a vacuum on the fitting and if there is oil there then you'll be sucking oil into the engine or into the vacuum pump. I don't think you'll be successful with the valley pan approach unless you copy the old Ford FE method. The Ford FE pulled vacuum from the valley but it took a fairly complex breather setup to work. The valve cover is an easier way to go but you'll still need to modify your valve covers. I use billet valve covers on my engine with a PCV valve. It took some work to get a baffle system that didn't allow oil to be sucked into the engine. The best way to approach it is to copy the factory design.
View attachment 652350

Hey Andy...by the looks of your PCV valve (M/E Wagner) maybe it was you that posted about it.
Whoever it was, thanks! They are great!

 

[wyrmrider]

condensation not a problem?you are not in the south and never make short trips

 

[2quick]

So I think i'm going to revisit the VAC Pump again but try and pull from pass Valve Cover this time. I have some work to do in there anyway so it will be part of a bigger project. I'm also having issues with valve stem seals that are brand new but for some reason leak oil into ports when it sits for awhile and I need to install shims to address the side play on the rocker arms/shafts cause it's very clicky and drives me nuts. I'm also going to need another valley plate cover to fix the hole that's currently there too.

 

[biomedtechguy]

So I think i'm going to revisit the VAC Pump again but try and pull from pass Valve Cover this time. I have some work to do in there anyway so it will be part of a bigger project. I'm also having issues with valve stem seals that are brand new but for some reason leak oil into ports when it sits for awhile and I need to install shims to address the side play on the rocker arms/shafts cause it's very clicky and drives me nuts. I'm also going to need another valley plate cover to fix the hole that's currently there too.

Sounds good. That vac pump should work well, as long as it is setup properly.
Pulling from a baffle covered opening in the valve cover I think is the ticket.
I just ordered the M/E Wagner PCV valve for my wife's 421 Tripower Pontiac.

 

[2quick]

Update, I just ordered the Wagner PCV. I noticed (or my wife told me LOL) Her eyes were watering when sitting in the passenger seat and I'm assuming it's the gasses coming from the breather in the passenger engine bay. So with or without the Vacuum Pump this will still be a problem. I decided to run the Wagner PCV in the valve cover, hopefully this will pull out the gasses and reburn them through the exhaust, keeping our eyes from watering. I'll need a new Valley Plate to fix the hole, and Run the vacuum pump only when Racing probably off the front of the valve cover. In between I disconnect the belt.

 

[eric383]

You don't have a separator on it? Not seeing one in the pic....

X2 on using a oil separator.

 

[2quick]

The breather tank is baffled inside and is supposed to accumulate oil in the catch tank, which it does just way to much then spills over and fouls breather.

 

[Cranky]

The breather tank is baffled inside and is supposed to accumulate oil in the catch tank, which it does just way to much then spills over and fouls breather.

View attachment 655487

How much oil is in it after each pass? The vac pump and separator is a racing deal and should be checked often. A buddy of mine ran one on his street legal race car but when just driving around on the street, it didn't accumulate all that much oil unless he made a pass or two. It will accumulate oil mist that's generated from windage and that can fill it up pretty fast. Street engines don't make that much mist unless they are run hard and when they are run hard, you generally do not create enough vacuum to pull oil out through the PCV system. Didn't go back over all the new posts but did you put a gauge on it to see how much vacuum it's pulling at WOT?

 

[2quick]

I have a PAN VAC V-Net sensor in the valley plate connected to my Race Pak dash, It shows about 2in Vacuum at idle and 11in or so around 5000 rpm. I think the biggest issue is just the placement of the pickup in the valley plate. It just gets flooded with oil and I can actually see the oil running into the can through the clear hose. Not so bad at idle but after a couple lets say (spirited drives) around town it pushes oil all over the engine bay. If I drain the can empty then drive about 20min getting on it here and there then drain again theirs probably a half a pint in the tank.

 

[funknut]

I can't make a more enthusiastic recommendation than I already did.
If you haven't yet, read all of the info on the M/E Wagner site I linked, call them and let them know what you have, what you want. With their tunable PCV valve and their expertise, and the detailed information they give for using a PCV valve, it's hard not to go that route.

I have had this PCV on my list for a while, I should finally pull the trigger. Do you have it plumbed back into the carb or to a catch can/separator?

 

[biomedtechguy]

Update, I just ordered the Wagner PCV. I noticed (or my wife told me LOL) Her eyes were watering when sitting in the passenger seat and I'm assuming it's the gasses coming from the breather in the passenger engine bay. So with or without the Vacuum Pump this will still be a problem. I decided to run the Wagner PCV in the valve cover, hopefully this will pull out the gasses and reburn them through the exhaust, keeping our eyes from watering. I'll need a new Valley Plate to fix the hole, and Run the vacuum pump only when Racing probably off the front of the valve cover. In between I disconnect the belt.

I spoke with Gene Wagner and his wife Barbara this morning. Their son Matt is the engineer behind the design. GREAT family operation, and an incredibly detailed instruction manual that comes with the PCV valve, but phone and email tech support is available too.

I have had this PVC on my list for a while, I should finally pull the trigger. Do you have it plumbed back into the carb or to a catch can/separator?

Carb, just like OEM. Ask them about your particular application.
You really should get one. I am not exaggerating, it changed everything for the better on my 440+6.

 

[PRHeads]

Re: pulling vacuum from the valley.

I had a customers 557 on the dyno a few years ago.
He had the vacuum system all set to go.
Made a few pulls with the belt off and valve covers with 2 breathers....... then swapped to sealed covers and hooked up the belt.

Ran it a couple mins to warm it back up, and very shortly after I started the pull oil was running out of the breather on the catch can.

Did a little test with the discharge hose going into a bucket to see how much oil was really coming out.

Loaded the motor to wot at like 4000rpm and it was like a fire hose with oil.

Yeh...... it was that bad.

 

[2quick]

Re: pulling vacuum from the valley.

I had a customers 557 on the dyno a few years ago.
He had the vacuum system all set to go.
Made a few pulls with the belt off and valve covers with 2 breathers....... then swapped to sealed covers and hooked up the belt.

Ran it a couple mins to warm it back up, and very shortly after I started the pull oil was running out of the breather on the catch can.

Did a little test with the discharge hose going into a bucket to see how much oil was really coming out.

Loaded the motor to wot at like 4000rpm and it was like a fire hose with oil.

Yeh...... it was that bad.

Yea and I have a serious baffle under there and it still pulls alot of oil...
Had you tried it in vavle cover? was wondering if it made any more power?

 

[biomedtechguy]

Yea and I have a serious baffle under there and it still pulls alot of oil...
Had you tried it in vavle cover? was wondering if it made any more power?

BTW I've never seen someone pull from a Mopar valley pan, but the 421 Tripower is setup that way from the factory, and it works well, BUT the Pontiac valley pan is dual layer, so I think that makes the difference in not picking up oil.
Pic is old PCV valve, M/E Wagner is in the mail!

 

[PRHeads]

It was several years ago, so the time line on when the vacuum port got relocated to the valve cover is a little fuzzy, but it was fine with the line hooked to the v/c.
How much power you will gain from a vacuum pump seems to be pretty combination specific.
On that 557 it was 30-35hp better with around 11-12” vacuum.
On my friends 800hp 535” Kauffman headed Pontiac it’s about the same.
But I also did the test on a 540 BBM that was making almost 850hp, and it was worth next to nothing on that motor.
That motor must have had a few air leaks though.......as I recall I could only get about 6” of vacuum on it.

 

[2quick]

It was several years ago, so the time line on when the vacuum port got relocated to the valve cover is a little fuzzy, but it was fine with the line hooked to the v/c.
How much power you will gain from a vacuum pump seems to be pretty combination specific.
On that 557 it was 30-35hp better with around 11-12” vacuum.
On my friends 800hp 535” Kauffman headed Pontiac it’s about the same.
But I also did the test on a 540 BBM that was making almost 850hp, and it was worth next to nothing on that motor.
That motor must have had a few air leaks though.......as I recall I could only get about 6” of vacuum on it.

Good solid info... That said I think i'll still run the PVC but I am going to put the Vac pump pickup in the VC and Plug the PCV and breather hole when I go to the track.