Solid roller on the street?

[Portagee]

Hi All,

Have a question for those with experience here, as I have never run a solid roller setup in my engines before.

I'm building a 440 to drop into my super bee, and want some feedback on cam and valvetrain selections. It's a stock bore '75 440 with forged steel crank, six pack rods, Icon IX9953-STD forged pistons, and will be ~10.5:1 CR. I just received a set of Trick Flow 240cc TFS-6161T784-C00 heads (after waiting for months, 1.56" dual springs good to 0.700 lift), and will be running the Harland Sharp 1.6 ratio gold rockers with them. This engine will be in front of a 23 spline A833 with 8 3/4 rear end (ratio undetermined yet). The goal is to drive the bee primarily on the street (with some spirited driving) and potential track use.

My issue is: the springs on the TF heads are meant for a solid roller setup. I'd like to avoid swapping springs out, and am considering my options.

Would you recommend running a solid roller cam and solid roller lifters in this scenario, based on the engine and intended use? Would something like a TF hydraulic roller with solid roller lifters be more appropriate? I'm concerned about sufficient oiling to the lifters at idle and general low rpm street use.

Thank you for the feedback!


Mike

 

[gkent]

A little extra spring doesn't hurt.

What cam "were" you thinking of ?
And now that you have these springs what cam are you thinking of ?

 

[Portagee]

So originally I was going to run a set of ported 906 heads, and came to the conclusion that I really wanted the TF 240's. Then went down the rabbit hole...

To pair with the iron heads, was going to run this kit (which I have): COMP Cams K21-672-4, which is a hydraulic flat tappet with 247 int./254 exh., 0.509 lift (stock ratio rockers), 108 lsa - basically a modern replacement for the mopar purple cam. That's definitely not going to work with what I have now, so I have no idea where to go from here.

Someone here is selling a new TF hydraulic roller cam with these specs:

So I could go that route with solid roller lifters, or maybe something else? Really not sure...

 

[snakeoil24]

I would nix the aluminum rockers in exchange for ductile iron and roller lifters with pressure feed ports and oil thru push rods and you will be fine. Iskaderian ex roll bronze bush rollers on the lifters.

 

[6PKRTSE]

I would nix the aluminum rockers in exchange for ductile iron and roller lifters with pressure feed ports and oil thru push rods and you will be fine. Iskaderian ex roll bronze bush rollers on the lifters.

I agree. Seen too many aluminum bodies Crack or break.

 

[Backrd.Junkyard]

It's a long shot, but you may be able to run the comp hydraulic cam with the springs you have if you leave the dampers in them and remove the inner springs. You would have to remove one, pull the inner spring, and get it tested to see how close it comes to comps' recommended 924 springs with 112 seat pressure and 347 pound/inch spring rate. That cam profile is a little bit lazy on the cam rate, so I wouldn’t try to run much more spring rate than what it calls for, about 120 closed and 360ish open. I haven’t been able to cross reference the outer spring by itself on PAC’s site, but if I come across it I’ll post results.

 

[Geoff 2]

[1] Agree use steel rockers, not alum.
[2] I would run a sol roller cam with sol rollers [ bushed, not needles ]. With hyd lifters you can & do get this: pump up, collapse. You don't get this with solids.

 

[33 IMP]

I like that cam, but I would probably run solid rollers on it, with 1.5 rockers. I don't care for retrofit hydraulic rollers much, I'd run a flat tappet solid first.
I would suggest that you contact Dwayne Porter, PRH here, and get his opinion.
There is also an episode of Engine Masters, where they did exactly that, solid rollers on a hydraulic roller cam. Worked out fine.

 

[Geoff 2]

Sol roller lifters work fine on hyd cams, done it many times myself. But lash becomes critical, & harder to adjust with alum heads, iron block. If a new cam is to be purchased, why not just get a sol roller?

 

[6PKRTSE]

I run a slightly larger camshaft but in a hydraulic flat tappet cam and lifters still with production stamped steel rockers never with any issues. Over 55,000 miles on it to date.

 

[gkent]

I would mix the aluminum rockers in exchange for ductile iron and roller lifters with pressure feed ports and oil thru push rods and you will be fine. Iskaderian ex roll bronze bush rollers on the lifters.

When you're spending someone else's money !!! Seriously ... an iron rocker and then the most expensive lifter on the planet. I don't think so! And his Harland Sharps are a high quality rocker.

Personally I think you're over camming it for a street motor. And likewise with the 1.6 rockers. But you already have those.

 

[IQ52]

Be careful using solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam with aluminum heads. The very tight lash requirements mean there will be almost no valve lash on a cold engine and you may even have some valves slightly open on fire up if you are not cautious.

 

[IQ52]

When you're spending someone else's money !!! Seriously ... an iron rocker and then the most expensive lifter on the planet. I don't think so! And his Harland Sharps are a high quality rocker.

Personally I think you're over camming it for a street motor. And likewise with the 1.6 rockers. But you already have those.

Yeah, I don't think I would have any problems running the Harland Sharp rockers.

 

[IQ52]

I personally don't like the thought of 10.5:1 compression ratio on a street engine, even with the good combustion chamber of the Trick Flow 240 head. The compression and the cam will make things edgy in the detonation compartment. Better be a good tuner.

 

[gkent]

I personally don't like the thought of 10.5:1 compression ratio on a street engine,

This is a VERY common CR for a street motor with aluminum heads.

 

[IQ52]

This is a VERY common CR for a street motor with aluminum heads.

Didn't say it wasn't common. Said I don't like it.

 

[6PKRTSE]

Didn't say it wasn't common. Said I don't like it.

Yes, my 10.5:1 iron headed 440 Sixpack in my Charger will occasionally hear some spark knock under a mid load on certain brands of pump gas. My aluminum headed 528" 10.5:1 Hemi does not. However, I couldn't hear if it was over the exhaust any way. Lol.

 

[Backrd.Junkyard]

How about an actual solid roller cam? This has pretty similar specs to the TFS hydraulic cam you listed, and is in stock.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-23-741-9/make/chrysler

 

[Portagee]

There is also an episode of Engine Masters, where they did exactly that, solid rollers on a hydraulic roller cam. Worked out fine.

Yeah I've seen that episode, seemed to work without any issues. I also spoke with Trick Flow and Howard's, and they both said that while they can't officially recommend running a solid lifter with a hydraulic cam, there shouldn't be any issues at all.

 

[Portagee]

If a new cam is to be purchased, why not just get a sol roller?

Yep that's totally an option in my head, but was just mostly concerned about potential oiling issues with a solid roller lifter in general - really don't like the idea of one failing and those little needle bearing dancing around through the engine...