Solid roller on the street?

[Portagee]

And his Harland Sharps are a high quality rocker.

Personally I think you're over camming it for a street motor. And likewise with the 1.6 rockers. But you already have those.

Yeah I do like the Harland Sharps - they look like a quality piece, and yes, I already have them so going to use them. At this point I'm basically putting together something close to Trick Flow's Top End Kit for BBM, but I'm limited by the spring I purchased in the head.

I suppose the easiest route would be to just get a different set of springs for the head and swap them out with the springs I already have in my Comp Cams hydraulic flat tappet kit and just run that...

 

[Portagee]

How about an actual solid roller cam? This has pretty similar specs to the TFS hydraulic cam you listed, and is in stock.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-23-741-9/make/chrysler

I really like that cam - looks like they have a lifter and timing set kit as well:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-sk23-741-9

Any opinions on the quality of those comp lifters? I feel like with the high seat pressure of my current springs and a big solid roller cam, potential for a lifter to fail is pretty high.

I've also heard that bushed solid rollers are better than the other ones, but I really don't know much about the differences - potential for failure?

 

[snakeoil24]

When you're spending someone else's money !!! Seriously ... an iron rocker and then the most expensive lifter on the planet. I don't think so! And his Harland Sharps are a high quality rocker.

Personally I think you're over camming it for a street motor. And likewise with the 1.6 rockers. But you already have those.

Stanton, I’m not into the aluminum rocker deal sorry you don’t agree, but that’s ok. Since we are in a very expensive hobby steel is the deal like stage 5 rockers. The iskaderian rollers cost 1200. Compared to 400 to 500 dollar needle rollers. Big difference and roller cams especially deserve them.

 

[gkent]

I've also heard that bushed solid rollers are better than the other ones, but I really don't know much about the differences - potential for failure?

at the Indy show about 5 years ago I asked a cam manufacturers rep about the bushed lifters for a street motor and he was quite adamant that they should not be used on the street. That they would not endure the prolonged beating of a street motor. The extended use would beat up the bronze, enlarging the roller pin hole. The chances od the steel roller failure was far less in his opinion. There are thousands of roller lifters out there in factory hydraulic roller motors. They all use steel roller bearings.

 

[snakeoil24]

at the Indy show about 5 years ago I asked a cam manufacturers rep about the bushed lifters for a street motor and he was quite adamant that they should not be used on the street. That they would not endure the prolonged beating of a street motor. The extended use would heat up the bronze, enlarging the roller pin hole. The chances od the steel roller failure was far less in his opinion. There are thousands of roller lifters out there in factory hydraulic roller motors. They all use steel roller bearings.

It’s ok I use the idly bronze a long time. Ron iskaderian the son of Ed believes in these and ive used for many years I would suggest you speak with Ron to confirm. Btw diesels use them for more than 50 years

 

[Backrd.Junkyard]

For a little extra (which is a lot when you look at the overall cost, but not as much as a roller failure) I would be looking at a set of BAM positive pressure oil feed lifters with the .815 or .850 inch roller wheels. I’ve talked to some people who are a lot sharper on this than I am, and a larger roller wheel matches the larger Chrysler core cam lobe, so your roller wheel isn’t making as many revolutions for each cam revolution as a smaller sized .750 inch diameter Chevy generic roller lifter wheel. It’s probably not as much as a concern as it is on inverse flank cams with extreme lift rates and spring pressures, but it would still increase reliability by slowing down the roller and needle speed at a given RPM, as well as provide marginally more contact area between the cam and roller. I would have to run the numbers to see, but any increase in contact area is relatively huge in rollerized assemblies for load bearing strength.
https://bamrollerlifters.business.site/

 

[33 IMP]

Yep that's totally an option in my head, but was just mostly concerned about potential oiling issues with a solid roller lifter in general - really don't like the idea of one failing and those little needle bearing dancing around through the engine...

That's why the bushed rollers were recommended above. They ARE expensive. Kinda like insurance against engine failure/overhaul.....

 

[snakeoil24]

The real issue we face is having the added expense of any roller cam considering their are only two flat tapper makers left in the world one in USA and second in China and why we have to put of with that crap plus no moly or zinc allowed in modern street engines

 

[IQ52]

To the compression/cylinder head issue. I've successfully run 11.9:1 compression with 906 iron heads and 91 octane pump gas on an engine used on the street without detonation........I don't recommend that combination either.

Every roller cam street engine I have ever built I've used lifters with needle roller bearings......running them right now.......I too don't want them to fail and scatter iron throughout the engine. I also don't want to get hit in the forehead with a meteorite either.....but I don't wake up every morning worrying about it.

 

[Portagee]

a larger roller wheel matches the larger Chrysler core cam lobe, so your roller wheel isn’t making as many revolutions for each cam revolution

That's an interesting point that I hadn't considered - totally makes sense regarding the rotations per lobe revolutions. I'll have to look into those BAM lifters.

 

[Portagee]

Looking into larger diameter roller wheels, which seems to be a great way to enhance longevity and resistance to abuse. Even though these Crowers are "full race use", they seem to be fairly priced and would work well even in a street motor. Thoughts?

Part number 66234X903H-16 seems like a good option with their HIPPO option, at $820...
https://www.cnc-motorsports.com/cro...ere-duty-oversize-bearing-roller-lifters.html

 

[Portagee]

Oops, meant to highlight the part number above that - 66233H-16:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cro-66233h-16/make/chrysler

 

[INTMD8]

Yep that's totally an option in my head, but was just mostly concerned about potential oiling issues with a solid roller lifter in general - really don't like the idea of one failing and those little needle bearing dancing around through the engine...

They are expensive but another option is Morel black mamba.

Has no bushing but a dissimilar material axle and through axle oiling.

 

[6PKRTSE]

In my 528 Hemi I do have .904 solid needle bearing roller lifters with .840 wheels and the lifter bores bushed and slotted for oil with standard push rod oiling and additional spray bar oils on the rocker stands on the street. Probably all overkill but gets raced also.

 

[Backrd.Junkyard]

Oops, meant to highlight the part number above that - 66233H-16:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cro-66233h-16/make/chrysler

That's a very good lifter choice, too! They should hold up very well with your relatively mild (street oriented) roller cam springs.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

I’ve ran solid rollers on the street with Harland sharps for years. Great rocker and will outlive several engines. Solid rollers on the street are fine long as your willing to accept you need to do some lifter maint once on a while.

 

[Portagee]

I’ve ran solid rollers on the street with Harland sharps for years. Great rocker and will outlive several engines. Solid rollers on the street are fine long as your willing to accept you need to do some lifter maint once on a while.

Perfect, this is what I was concerned about. Just wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be shooting myself in foot going the solid roller route if the engine won't be consistently seeing really high rpm. Also good to hear the HS rockers will last, they do seem to be really high quality.

And definitely not a problem to check the lash every few times I take the car out. I'm anticipating driving the car a few times a month, so even monthly lash checks and lifter inspections would probably be safe enough...

 

[IQ52]

From years ago I have new 240 Trick Flow solid roller cam springs. Checked two of them........my RIMAC spring checker only goes to 500#

@ 2.00 installed height with inner spring and damper.................w/o inner spring
.......................................................252#.................................168#
@.450 lift.........................................471#...............'.................306#
@.500 lift..................................................................................322#
@.600 lift..................................................................................358#
@.700 lift..................................................................................401#

 

[gkent]

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned this but with a non-bushed lifter bore you’ll want a roller lifter with a “shrouded” roller so as not to expose the oil galley at full lift. Such as Crane 66542’s

 

[Portagee]

From years ago I have new 240 Trick Flow solid roller cam springs. Checked two of them........my RIMAC spring checker only goes to 500#

@ 2.00 installed height with inner spring and damper.................w/o inner spring
.......................................................252#.................................168#
@.450 lift.........................................471#...............'.................306#
@.500 lift..................................................................................322#
@.600 lift..................................................................................358#
@.700 lift..................................................................................401#

This is great information to have, thanks for sharing. I think these are the same springs that I currently have in my heads:

https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-16318-16/applications