Still no brakes! Losing my mind.

[skag101]

I'm thinking it has something to do with your push rod.

If the rod is too short you won't be able to move the piston in the mc. If it's too long or not inserted in the hole in the piston, it will have the piston located beyond the fluid holes, inside of the mc and won't draw fluid.

Try taking the mc loose and see where the rod is.
You can also look under the dash and see what is going on from the peddle to the back of the booster.

I'm also thinking that the rod can come loose in the booster on some units. When you reinstall the mc things are not connected. (This last statement is just a guess. It's been awhile.)

Did everything work ok before you replaced the sticking caliper?

Yeah I had brakes before. I have only drove the car a couple of time since I bought it but they did work. Its really weird. I have never had anything like this happen and I have put on a lot of brakes in the past years. I'm pumping fluid to all wheels when I bleed them. Would the length still affect it? Ill try anything once. LOL

 

[khryslerkid]

Ok. If you're getting fluid to the wheels when pumping then the mc should be working. Should be a good squirt when opening the bleeder.
I'm trying to think how it might be bypassing. I'll have to study the proportioning valve again and get back to you.
When you blocked off the lines to the mc, did you have a full pedal?

 

[skag101]

Ok. If you're getting fluid to the wheels when pumping then the mc should be working. Should be a good squirt when opening the bleeder.
I'm trying to think how it might be bypassing. I'll have to study the proportioning valve again and get back to you.
When you blocked off the lines to the mc, did you have a full pedal?

Yep. Full pedal. Practically no movement. I appreciate you helping me with this. It's really aggravating spending so much money buying the car and not being able to get her out on the road.LOL
Bill

 

[khryslerkid]

You'll get it. Normally it's something simple but we might have to take the long way around to find it!
If you didn't have this happening, you wouldn't have found the leaking, rear cylinder.

I'm thinking the piston in the proportioning valve is stuck and letting the fluid bypass back to the mc. But I'll have to prove this first...

 

[khryslerkid]

This is what I've come up with so far...
The proportioning valve doesn't have anything to do with a soft pedal in a closed system. The symptoms of a bad one is the rear brakes lock up or no rear brakes.

So I read four articles on people having a soft or no brake pedal, and all of them solved their problem by replacing the valve. In each case it was the last thing that they replaced.

The only other thing would be a bad mc. New ones are found to be bad every day. But yours held good when the outlets were capped off.

So I guess it's up to you, unless someone else would like to chime in...

 

[skag101]

This is what I've come up with so far...
The proportioning valve doesn't have anything to do with a soft pedal in a closed system. The symptoms of a bad one is the rear brakes lock up or no rear brakes.

So I read four articles on people having a soft or no brake pedal, and all of them solved their problem by replacing the valve. In each case it was the last thing that they replaced.

The only other thing would be a bad mc. New ones are found to be bad every day. But yours held good when the outlets were capped off.

So I guess it's up to you, unless someone else would like to chime in...

Wow. Your putting some time in on this. I really appreciate it. I don't care a bit to replace it. Hopefully it will take care of the problem. Think I should get one with a metering valve for the front discs? Things I've read say it's a necessity with the front discs. A bit pricey but what isn't on a 63.

 

[skag101]

This is what I've come up with so far...
The proportioning valve doesn't have anything to do with a soft pedal in a closed system. The symptoms of a bad one is the rear brakes lock up or no rear brakes.

So I read four articles on people having a soft or no brake pedal, and all of them solved their problem by replacing the valve. In each case it was the last thing that they replaced.

The only other thing would be a bad mc. New ones are found to be bad every day. But yours held good when the outlets were capped off.

So I guess it's up to you, unless someone else would like to chime in...

This may come through twice. Thought I sent one a few minutes ago but I don't see it. I should probably get one with the metering valve for the front discs? Articles I've read say it's a necessity. Thanks for your research. I really appreciate it. I will keep you informed of the results.
Bill

 

[khryslerkid]

I hear that the adjuster is the way to go. Then just find a back road or parking lot to dial them in.

I'm not taking any time with this. I'm actually educating myself, for when I need to set my '62 up with disc on the front. I'm just not that far yet! Lol

Good luck and keep us up to date...

 

[Glenwood]

still sounds like air trapped in the system to me.

 

[dla4567]

I agree with Glenwood. I would use a vacuum pump at each wheel and pull a lot through.

 

[dryheat]

Perhaps a stupid question but ... Are your calipers on the wrong side? The bleeder screw needs to be on the top side of the caliper otherwise you will have a lot of air in them. Don't ask me how I know this.

 

[Glenwood]

I don't necessarily disagree with Kkid, but it's a little coincidental for the valve to get stuck only after replacing a caliper.
I recall having a bitch of a time trying to bleed all four brakes many years ago; probably my first time. I was by myself (as usual!), trying to keep the mc from going empty and introducing more air into the lines while I work the bleeders & pump the pedal. Nearly impossible without a vacuum pump. If the pedal is not building pressure while bleeding, the air might still be in there. I think I finally opened all of the bleeders and kept pouring into the mc, closing off each one at a time, starting with the closest first. That's when I had to find a volunteer to pump while I further bled each one, starting with the closest again. I now use a vac pump and it's ridiculous how much easier it is!
Skag, can you describe how you bled them?

 

[Daves69]

IMO, Got to be air in the system as the fluid will not compress. Maybe if you list the steps/actions you are using to bleed them starting with the passenger rear we can determine something.
1)
2)
3)
etc.
If the pushrod rod was short I'd think your pedal would sit low at the top. If it's loose I think one would be able to feel the loss motion between full up pedal and when the rod makes contact with the piston.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

I haven't read the whole thread so I might be off base here. But since I seen this once before I have to ask. Did you have both calipers off at the same time? I had a friend that had an issue just like this. He was experienced in working on his brakes. He had them a part and some how got the two mixed up. He put the left on the right and right on the left. They did fit but his bleeders were now on the bottom side. Several people had looked his car over and missed this. Finally someone noticed it. He swapped them and everything was good. Not saying this is your case just throwing out an idea.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

My bad. I see someone already asked this. Sorry.

 

[Coronet 14]

Is the MC lid sealing properly. It could suck air in when you step on the pedal. Are you using the same fluid that you are removing from bleeding the system and pouring it back into the MC. Even if the fluid is clean you will introduce air bubbles back into the system.

 

[mopar12372]

get a clear jar or bottle fill with brake fluid . get a vaccuum line that fits over nipple on wheel cylinders and calapers.
open nipple attach vaccuum line to nipple put vaccuum line in clear bottle with brake fluid in it dont allow line to come out of fluid.
now with other nipples closed have some one pump brake pedal while looking at bottle for air bubbles . when bubbles stop close nipple. move on to the next nipple
this is how you remove air from system

 

[the mississippi madman]

Perhaps a stupid question but ... Are your calipers on the wrong side? The bleeder screw needs to be on the top side of the caliper otherwise you will have a lot of air in them. Don't ask me how I know this.

Not a stupid question I was thinking the same thing

 

[miller]

Might be off the wall...but, you know there are differences in the MC, for manual vs power brakes. Is your's the right type?

Other thing...distribution block. Just being honest here. Looks like crap, wonder what it looks like inside? Usually simple things, besides wrong parts, keep fluid from getting from A to Z. If the brakes are flat not working, might be worth pulling the block, clean, and check it for blockage.

 

[malex]

A couple of things that may have been mentioned already as I did not read the entire thread but strange things I've seen is:
1 - Check that your air bleeds are right at the top. If not you'll never get all the air out. Some conversion kits, you have to tip the caliper to get the bleeder at the top.
2 - Make sure that the M/C push rod is getting full stroke. Pin location on the pedal might need to come down.