Strange problem...

[Red63440]

My Pitman arm is hitting my header....anyone else notice that problem when installing headers??

 

[Hemi Rebel]

It would be strange if they didnt. Seriously though,getting headers to fit has always been a challenge. Save for TTI, i would expect them to be hitting something. I once got so pissed trying to get a set of 400 dollar hooker super comp's to fit that i wound up trashing them and throwing them away. They never saw one ounce of exhaust gas.

 

[snakeoil24]

That does not sound right at all. have you checked that it is indexed properly on the shaft of steering box? Is it locking up the box? Or just needs a ding?

 

[snakeoil24]

We have all seen problems with Hooker headers. They are now offically out of business and bought by some Investment company.

 

[happyjackdaddy54]

I had the exact same problems with some super comps. Switched to a set of TTI's . It's a pisse to spend that much money and can't use them!!!!

 

[Hemi Rebel]

My Pitman arm is hitting my header....anyone else notice that problem when installing headers??

If you could post some pics of them hitting it may help. Depending on how they hit someone may be able to think of a solution.

 

[RustyRatRod]

The steering box can be manipulated by installing front end shims between the K frame and steering box. As long as the amount is not excessive, you'll be fine. All this is covered in the Mopar Chassis manual. Nine times outta ten when the pitman arm hits headers, it's because the steering box is in the wrong location. When header manufacturers (especially high end ones) use a mock up car, they generally get everything in the correct factory location and run with it. That's one reason why one car may fit fine and another have problems. The idler arm is also adjustable in a similar fashion, but it requires the holes in the K frame to be filed where the idler arm through bolt attaches. Again, all this is covered in the Mopar Chassis manual.

 

[Red63440]

These are Headman, I don't have a chassis manual..

 

[RustyRatRod]

These are Headman, I don't have a chassis manual..

Then I guess all is lost. You might as well give up now.

 

[Red63440]

Then I guess all is lost. You might as well give up now.

Are you always so sarcastic in your remarks? Explaining what I could check and how would have made for a great post for others that may end up with the same problem. Being that you work in a shop gives you a great opportunity to help those on this board that although they may not have the books DO have the intelligence and ability to repair something.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Are you always so sarcastic in your remarks? Explaining what I could check and how would have made for a great post for others that may end up with the same problem. Being that you work in a shop gives you a great opportunity to help those on this board that although they may not have the books DO have the intelligence and ability to repair something.

Your short answer made it seem like you were shooting down good advice. If that's your attitude, then you should throw in the towel. If not, then you should follow my advice. 10 bucks is what the Chassis Manual costs from Mancini. I helped you. I gave you good advice. You shot it down. That was your decision, not mine. The next time you ask for advice and I have some good to give, I can just as easily skip over it, if you so desire.

 

[Red63440]

Your short answer made it seem like you were shooting down good advice. If that's your attitude, then you should throw in the towel. If not, then you should follow my advice. 10 bucks is what the Chassis Manual costs from Mancini. I helped you. I gave you good advice. You shot it down. That was your decision, not mine. The next time you ask for advice and I have some good to give, I can just as easily skip over it, if you so desire.

I guess I was hoping that you would say just how much you could shim the front of the steering box and still be safe. I was eating with one hand and typing with the other when I wrote that response which is why it was short and I didn't shoot anything down. When I came back on and saw your response I wrote the reponse I did. If you noticed I thanked you for what you wrote in your earlier post.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I guess I was hoping that you would say just how much you could shim the front of the steering box and still be safe. I was eating with one hand and typing with the other when I wrote that response which is why it was short and I didn't shoot anything down. When I came back on and saw your response I wrote the reponse I did. If you noticed I thanked you for what you wrote in your earlier post.

Adjustment varies from car to car. That's why it's important to get the chassis manual. It's more complex than I can really explain here. If my scanner was working, I would scan the page and show you. What needs to be done is some simple geometry. You take measurements from several places (idler arm and pitman arms being two) then make adjustments as needed. When header clearance is involved, I always got tat cleared up first, then made the rest of the adjustments accordingly. The pitman and idler arms are supposed to be at the same heights from the floor for proper steering linkage geometry. There's much more to it than just that, but the chassis manual covers it. How bad does the pitman arm hit? If it's real bad, there may not be a lot you can do. The k frame may have taken a lick at some point. If it doesn't hit by much, chances are it can be adjusted. It would be so much easier to tell you with the chassis manual and the drawings and text that are there. While all it does is tell you how to properly adjust for good steering and not header clearance, you can certainly throw header clearance into the mix and adjust accordingly. It is far from rocket science.......and when you see a copy of the chassis manual, you'll understand completely. I'll work on getting my scanner going in the meantime, as I think all that may be wrong with it is the ink cartriges are dry. I have the stuff to do it so I'll see.

 

[Red63440]

Adjustment varies from car to car. That's why it's important to get the chassis manual. It's more complex than I can really explain here. If my scanner was working, I would scan the page and show you. What needs to be done is some simple geometry. You take measurements from several places (idler arm and pitman arms being two) then make adjustments as needed. When header clearance is involved, I always got tat cleared up first, then made the rest of the adjustments accordingly. The pitman and idler arms are supposed to be at the same heights from the floor for proper steering linkage geometry. There's much more to it than just that, but the chassis manual covers it. How bad does the pitman arm hit? If it's real bad, there may not be a lot you can do. The k frame may have taken a lick at some point. If it doesn't hit by much, chances are it can be adjusted. It would be so much easier to tell you with the chassis manual and the drawings and text that are there. While all it does is tell you how to properly adjust for good steering and not header clearance, you can certainly throw header clearance into the mix and adjust accordingly. It is far from rocket science.......and when you see a copy of the chassis manual, you'll understand completely. I'll work on getting my scanner going in the meantime, as I think all that may be wrong with it is the ink cartriges are dry. I have the stuff to do it so I'll see.

Ok great, I will see if I can get a few photos tomorrow. Its the knuckle that is hitting and I sn steer through it but you can feel it when it hits. My concern is when the suspension of the car moves, will it get worse? Thank you very much for your explaination.

 

[RustyRatRod]

No. The idler and pitman arms are fixed. The only movement is from where the inner tie rods connect on out to the spindles. Once you get the pitman arm where it will clear the header (and it sounds like you can) the clearance there will not change. PROBABLY what needs to be done is to adjust the gearbox so that the output shaft rotates CLOCKWISE as viewed from the driver's side, if that makes sense. So, you'd be shimming the top steering bolts. My guess is there are some shims there to begin with. There usually are unless the car has been monkeyed with.

 

[Red63440]

No. The idler and pitman arms are fixed. The only movement is from where the inner tie rods connect on out to the spindles. Once you get the pitman arm where it will clear the header (and it sounds like you can) the clearance there will not change. PROBABLY what needs to be done is to adjust the gearbox so that the output shaft rotates CLOCKWISE as viewed from the driver's side, if that makes sense. So, you'd be shimming the top steering bolts. My guess is there are some shims there to begin with. There usually are unless the car has been monkeyed with.

I am thinking it needs shimmed because the adjusting collars on the tie rod end also hit and there should be enough room.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I am thinking it needs shimmed because the adjusting collars on the tie rod end also hit and there should be enough room.

You would certainly think so. You should be able to look between the gearbox and the K frame to see if there are any shims. It sounds like there may be none.

 

[Red63440]

It was driving me nuts so I went to the garage and took some photos. I have't had a chance to scrape off all the crud it that area but I am getting there...

 

[coloradodave]

My experience: 63 Fury, B/B wedge, TTI 2" headers (old CPPA brand). Pitman had interference with 1 header tube. Ordered a new arm, then a second from a different manufacturer. Both hit. After talking to TTI they indicated that this used to be a problem with the old style header and the new ones were made differently. I took the pitman to a hotrod shop and had them cold press the arm to reduce the length by 5/8". This provided the necessary clearance and has not affected the steering.

 

[Red63440]

My experience: 63 Fury, B/B wedge, TTI 2" headers (old CPPA brand). Pitman had interference with 1 header tube. Ordered a new arm, then a second from a different manufacturer. Both hit. After talking to TTI they indicated that this used to be a problem with the old style header and the new ones were made differently. I took the pitman to a hotrod shop and had them cold press the arm to reduce the length by 5/8". This provided the necessary clearance and has not affected the steering.

After seeing the photos I am ashamed of how that looks....guess its like a woman with dust on her tables when company comes. You are saying that they decreased the bend by 5/8" to get it lower...? It looks like yours has a deeper drop than mine does....Was that after they modified it? It seems that my tie rod runs up hill to the pittman arm..is that normal? Could I have the wrong pittman arm or I wonder if the steering box was replaced with one from a different car.