Stroker 383/450 or 451 decision

[Banzaiii67]

Couple things up in the air with my satellite. First, I've got what looks to be a mild rear main leak and I'm also looking at rebushing the front end, changing out for larger t-bars, and frame connectors.

So, I'm kinda at a crossroad. Do I pull the engine and transmission to seal up the rear main and rebuild the front suspension and install the k-member and engine and trans as a whole?

If I'm going through all the trouble, my thought is maybe do a whole engine upgrade. The 383 i have installed, is pretty fresh. I did the heads last year and the cylinder walls still have cross hatching without any ridges. The block has been hot tanked, magnafluxed, plugged, bored .30 over with tp hone, and align honed. Also the assemble was balanced, however the builder/previous owner didn't account for the compression height of the KB Pistons, so they sit .025 in the hole.

Question is it worth it to spend more $1000+ for a 400 block and block prep for a stroker 451/470 or save a couple bucks and look at a muscle motors 383/450 kit. I suppose I could also sell the 383 as-is, maybe I could get $1500.

 

[Xp29h]

I just put a stroked 400 in my charger. However I skipped the 451 and 470 route and went 512! No regrets! Goes like crazy! Love it!

 

[Yatzee]

Go 512 and do it right the first time. You'll have all the power you need and save a bit on fuel. That's what I did and in case you haven't check your finances lately, my 512 set me back almost $7000 grand when done. You can do it cheaper but not if you want to do it right and realize the benefits of the whole project. What ever you do, kit or custom, don't buy from 440 Source.

 

[XMAN JR]

I was going to buy a 383/496ci. kit from 440 source. What is the deal with 440 source ?

 

[IQ52]

It's okay to buy from 440 Source. Customer service is great and if you have a problem they will fix it pronto.

 

[Xp29h]

I used 440 source for all the parts. They had most of the best deals. Parts were top notch and fit as they said they would. Very pleased with them. Call and talk to them, they'll give you all the time you need. I called several times with questions and they were right there every time.

 

[747mopar]

You just need to ask yourself a series of questions.

How much do you really want to spend?

How much HP is it going to take to make you happy?

What's the intended use?

After you know the answers to those questions then the decision should be easy. As far as cost goes a 451 is a cheaper route provided you have a 440 rotating assembly sitting around (I've got about $4,500 in mine) but the 512 would certainly be nice. The intended use is the most important question in my opinion because you can end up with a motor that isn't any fun to cruise if you go to crazy making the big stroker kits even more appealing.

- - - Updated - - -

I will mention the worst mistake I made was building a set of 452 heads. They flow just as good as the Stealths now but once I had all the machine work done, upgraded the valves, springs, retainers, etc I would have been just as far ahead just buying a set of aluminum heads (won't do that again).

 

[moper]

One of the nicest strokers I did was 2 years ago. Using the customer's machined 383 block, it was simply upgraded a little, and a Muscle Motors 496 rotating assembly was installed. With better heads it's made over 550hp, and won in stock apearing, and he's put 12K hard miles on it.
That being said - no kit is perfect from all the ones I've used, and 440Source product is the most "not perfect". Not even close. In fact, it just barely makes it using factory specs for taper and bearing clearance in some cases. It's great value stuff - but it should be carefully checked and you should assume you will spend some on correcting things. For me, shipping accross country is not worth doing. So when it's wrong (by my standards) I have it fixed. It's usually the Source rods that are the problem although the cranks are all over the place in terms of journal to journal finish quality. The journals will be within factory specs - but they might be all over that range and they will have a bunch of taper.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I bought a 400 engine complete for $300, a steel 440 crank and rods for $150, and built a great running 451 with that. Used the 509 cam, stock rocker gear, 915 heads, and Ross dome pistons. It has great low end torque, from 1500 RPM and up. Easy to drive on the street, and runs low 12s in the 1/4 mile at 110 MPH. You can't beat it for a budget built 451.

- - - Updated - - -

If you need to get into the elevens, and still stay streetable, then one way is to go with a 470 to 512 stroker.

 

[64 Post]

That being said - no kit is perfect from all the ones I've used, and 440Source product is the most "not perfect". Not even close. In fact, it just barely makes it using factory specs for taper and bearing clearance in some cases. It's great value stuff - but it should be carefully checked and you should assume you will spend some on correcting things. For me, shipping accross country is not worth doing. So when it's wrong (by my standards) I have it fixed. It's usually the Source rods that are the problem although the cranks are all over the place in terms of journal to journal finish quality. The journals will be within factory specs - but they might be all over that range and they will have a bunch of taper.

^^^ THIS. I'll have to take my "new" crank .010 under to remove the taper and out of round to my satisfaction.

 

[Banzaiii67]

Doing the math here, in your guys experience what does labor cost for machining, balancing and short block assembly for a stoker assuming there won't be any clearance? $1250 with arp bolts

 

[Garys1969RR]

Doing the math here, in your guys experience what does labor cost for machining, balancing and short block assembly for a stoker assuming there won't be any clearance? $1250 with arp bolts

If you buy your crank/rods/pistons from a supplier, it should all be balanced and ready for assembly. To turn the main journals down to 383/400 size your prob looking at $200. Thats what mine cost 4 years ago. Block bore/hone with torque plates, rod re sizing, hot tank, cam bearings installed, and all plugs installed came to almost a thousand.

- - - Updated - - -

You're going to get prices all over the place. It's easiest and prob just as cheap to buy your reciprocating assembly from a supplier. Then get your block machined at a shop. I do my own assembly so I saved some money there. Not that hard to do. Just research it until you know what needs to be done. Also nice to have someone around who has done it before.

 

[moper]

Like Gary said - prices depend on your area, and the shop you use. The shop I use is quite good, has it's own dyno and flowbench, does a ton of local roundy round work, guys that have ben there for decades, and most major equipment that's newer than 10 years. If I bring in a bare oily block, and have them do what I consider a full prep for a stroker, then it will cost me about $2000 for the block machining, and another $450 or so for the balancing. As far as machining operations this is my standard: I sonic test myself before anything else. Then fit main studs, align bore/hone, square deck to my specification, bore, torque plate hone with finish to ring spec. I do oiling mods, clean, and install the cam bearings and hardware, and assemble it. Balancing is to the tenth of a gram.

I'll add - if you have not assembled a non-factory stroke engine, or one that used all aftermarket new parts, then you probably should pay someone to do it for you. There are pitfalls a novice will probably hit, not matter how good the kit or kit's supplier are.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

440 source isn't that bad, I've used a few of their kits. Actually this last crank was really good on the taper and out of round. Unless your buying a Callie's, molnar, or something along those lines there rarely perfect. For your more affordable kits there's always a bit of sacrifice. Eagle cranks use to be the worst (better now), I remember when I built my hemi, that one had really good journals. I was excited because I got a good one for my build. Got to the end of the build and went to push the damper on. THUD, wtf this damper must be machined big. Grabbed another damper off the shelf and same thing. Turns out the snout was machined undersize. So much for a good one... Lol Like stated above though, some experience goes along way when screwing together ANY aftermarket parts. There is or will be something that will need a little extra attention. That said go big!! I'm building a 511 under my roadrunner 8.4 thread.

 

[Luvmopes1]

Ok,

Wanted to glob on to this thread. I am restoring a 68 Superbee pretty close to original and by the vin it's a 383 4 speed car. I have a 68 383 engine not numbers matching. Looking to get some better performance but with reliablity. Not opposed to stroking.

I know going to a 440 is a better choice for performance but kinda want to keep it closer to what it came from the factory. Or should I just go with a 440. Although they are getting harder to find.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Ok,

Wanted to glob on to this thread. I am restoring a 68 Superbee pretty close to original and by the vin it's a 383 4 speed car. I have a 68 383 engine not numbers matching. Looking to get some better performance but with reliablity. Not opposed to stroking.

I know going to a 440 is a better choice for performance but kinda want to keep it closer to what it came from the factory. Or should I just go with a 440. Although they are getting harder to find.

You can build the 383 block into something. Only real issue is with some big valve heads there's not enough bore clearance on the 383. That can usually be resolved with grinding some reliefs into the top of the cylinders. What's the goals for the engine? That will dictate how you build it.

 

[Luvmopes1]

Main goal is to be reliable and getting some more HP. Not looking to be a neck breaker. I am doing a really nice roticery restoration.

Probably the biggest deviation from original will be adding disk brakes.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Main goal is to be reliable and getting some more HP. Not looking to be a neck breaker. I am doing a really nice roticery restoration.

Probably the biggest deviation from original will be adding disk brakes.

Something like that I would stay with the 383 block. Add a 440 (3.750 stroke) crank, some ported iron heads, small hyd cam that you can use stock rockers with, and call it a day. Be a good dependable motor.

 

[moper]

The only changes I'd make to GTS' deal is I'd run Stealths (cleaned up and gone through to correct them) and I'd buy a Source crank. Stock 440 cranks need a bit of massaging to fit the B wedge block, and by the time you're done you spent more than 1/2 way to a new, stronger, drop in Source one.

 

[Moparman66]

I have a chance to buy a couple complete 400 engines, minus the carb, one fuel pump and alternator. One engine is out of a Newport and the other out of a fury I think. Think I can get them both for $300 or a little more. The mileage is unknown on both, but was told they were running when pulled. I have been toying with the idea of stroking one and dropping it in my Coronet. I am wanting to keep it very streetable and not too wild. What do you guys think I would have into one of them money wise stroked to a 451, machining, heads and all?