Suspension woes! Just getting upset at this point.

[Purepony]

I know it’s not a n body but I’m assuming it’s similar. This is for a 74 e body.

I’ve been trying to adjust the camber per what I’ve read online, which is front bolt, facing the front of the car, all the way out, rear cam bolt, facing the back of the car all the way in.

Basically front part of the arm out rear part of the arm in.

This is on a stock suspension car. The only upgrade is hemi torsion bars that were put in about 10 years ago.

For whatever reason one side seems to have more positive camber so I believe the passenger side to be correct. However, the driver side has negative camber ( too much) even though both arms are set to front out and rear in.


Basically, my questions. would any of this be related to the strut rod or any other part of the suspension like the torsion bars?

Could there be another part that’s binding for example and holding or throwing one side off?

should I just set them so they both match in view by eye ? Because I think I could do that I think I can make the passenger side just like the right, even though it’s going to require different settings on the Cam bolts so I know for a fact the settings on the Cam bolts won’t match.

Another thing I’m wondering is, should I release all the suspension like the strut rod, the torsion bar, the lower control arm and reassemble it? To see if anything was binding


And if I do that, do I torque everything to specs with the suspension weight in the car ?

I know it’s too much, but I’m losing my mind over here. I’ve been at this for a couple of days and for some reason things are not lining up

See pics
. You can see the gaps in the fenders

Thanks everyone

 

[Kern Dog]

Many cars, maybe most, will have the alignment cams positioned differently on each side to arrive at numbers close to each other. The blame? Sloppy factory tolerances in everything. Age makes it worse and unfortunately, some aftermarket parts are not as good as the factory stuff.
I've had the opposite luck....2 Chargers that look right and track straight with similar appearing positions of the UCA adjustment cams. I feel that I just got lucky and am at the end of the scale in a hugely positive way. I have the offset UCA bushings which with the God given advantages elsewhere, I was able to get over 5 degrees of caster with .75 degree of negative camber in the red car. To me, this is an excellent spec for road use and great response.
Your idea of disassembly and reassembly may help as it may reveal a mistake or flaw somewhere.
Good luck.

 

[R413]

Those eccentric bolts adjust camber and caster at the same time. You will fail if you try to go all out on front and all in on rear. Then there is the differences in the manufacturing of the car body, differences in all 4 control arms, wear, bent parts, machining tolerances on the spindles, etc. So really you can never set them the same from side to side and have the alignment be correct.

You cannot go by fender gaps either. Production tolerances are + or - 1/4 inch. Then prior accidents, body repairs, etc.

If you are not well versed on front end alignments you are chasing your tail at home going by eye and will have a hell of a time, and get very frustrated.

So these crusty old bastards you are so fond of are trying to tell you that you need a good alignment shop. Look your other thread, the month has changed but the answers are still the same.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

As both of the above posts had stated, factory tolerances are sloppy, the cams are going to wind u different... I always advocate for setting the cams to maximum caster before getting an alignment so the tech is less inclined to see an acceptable number with minimal caster & stop adjusting...

 

[Purepony]

I called 3 alignments places
1. Won’t work on anything older than 10 years
2. Doesn’t have specs he said
3. Will align but doesn’t adjust camber or caster he said ://

 

[1 Wild R/T]

@autoxcuda

Steve should be able to suggest a shop..

 

[Kern Dog]

I called 3 alignments places
1. Won’t work on anything older than 10 years
2. Doesn’t have specs he said
3. Will align but doesn’t adjust camber or caster he said ://

 

[R413]

Go to a local show, cruise-in, or car club meeting and ask which shop knows how to work on a 50 year old car.

call a frame and alignment shop.

 

[Orig69]

Turn the steering wheel to the left a little bit and see if the fender gaps look better.

 

[RemCharger]

I know it’s not a n body but I’m assuming it’s similar. This is for a 74 e body.

I’ve been trying to adjust the camber per what I’ve read online, which is front bolt, facing the front of the car, all the way out, rear cam bolt, facing the back of the car all the way in.

Basically front part of the arm out rear part of the arm in.

This is on a stock suspension car. The only upgrade is hemi torsion bars that were put in about 10 years ago.

For whatever reason one side seems to have more positive camber so I believe the passenger side to be correct. However, the driver side has negative camber ( too much) even though both arms are set to front out and rear in.


Basically, my questions. would any of this be related to the strut rod or any other part of the suspension like the torsion bars?

Could there be another part that’s binding for example and holding or throwing one side off?

should I just set them so they both match in view by eye ? Because I think I could do that I think I can make the passenger side just like the right, even though it’s going to require different settings on the Cam bolts so I know for a fact the settings on the Cam bolts won’t match.

Another thing I’m wondering is, should I release all the suspension like the strut rod, the torsion bar, the lower control arm and reassemble it? To see if anything was binding


And if I do that, do I torque everything to specs with the suspension weight in the car ?

I know it’s too much, but I’m losing my mind over here. I’ve been at this for a couple of days and for some reason things are not lining up

See pics
. You can see the gaps in the fenders

Thanks everyone

View attachment 1493584

View attachment 1493585

Are the lower bushings good?

 

[Purepony]

Turn the steering wheel to the left a little bit and see if the fender gaps look better.

Even when both wheels are straight, the gap is still off between both of the sides.

 

[Purepony]

Are the lower bushings good?

Yes, lower bushings are good. Upper bushings are good tire rods are new, gearbox is new. The only thing that was reused were the inner tie rods the center link Pitman an idler arm.

 

[Purepony]

View attachment 1493614

I know there’s not a lot of shops, willing to work on a 50 year old car let alone a mopar.

I used to take the car to Julius. He’s the one that put the hemi torsion bars in and did a few other things but he’s closed now.

I had gone to a place to do alignment, but they didn’t do anything about the camber or caster

I called a place called Alabama suspension, which is supposed to be pretty good, but nobody answered all day

 

[Kern Dog]

Lazy pricks...If all they do is set the toe, any friggin monkey can do that. THAT is the easiest to do. You just need to do more research as to what is within driving range or trailer towing range. Here in Sacramento, Ca, there are several old school tire stores that have alignment racks....with seasoned guys that drove these cars when they were growing up. This town cannot be unique. No offense but I strongly suspect that southern CA would have a greater amount of the same type of shops we have here simply due to the greater population. You just have to find them.

 

[BIG-A]

Chassis manual has a section on alignment. I set all my own alignments using the methods in this book.

 

[66 Sat]

I must have been very lucky. I rebuilt my whole front end with new parts and did my own alignment with a tape measure and a builder's spirit level.
I set the toe very slightly in, I tried to get some negative camber, didn't do anything about caster (don't even know how to measure it).
This was in 2018. Car has been driven a lot since then, tracks straight and true, no uneven tire wear, steers beautifully. I did an 80 mile trip today, total pleasure.
I say have a go yourself and see how it drives. You might be surprised at the results.

 

[vance.dykes]

this is the best in my book these eliminate the cam bolts and gives all the adjustment.

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[65hemi]

Go to a local show, cruise-in, or car club meeting and ask which shop knows how to work on a 50 year old car.

That’s what I did. Found a guy familiar with old Mopars. I set up the car in the garage to make it drivable and took the car to the guy for final set up.

 

[R413]

If all they do is set the toe then it’s not an alignment.

Fender gaps not a good measuring point. Put 50lbs of weight in one side of the trunk and the front fender gaps will change. Park on a hill the front fender gap will change.

if you didn’t check or measure caster and it drives straight, then yes you are very lucky. Not impossible to do.

Caster is not a tire wearing setting, just camber and toe can wear the tires If out of whack.

Those adjustable upper arms are fine If you want that, probably get more caster if you need that. But they are not necessary to get your stock Chrysler corp car to drive correctly. The stock cam bolts give you adjustability for caster and camber and work just fine.

 

[vance.dykes]

If all they do is set the toe then it’s not an alignment.

Fender gaps not a good measuring point. Put 50lbs of weight in one side of the trunk and the front fender gaps will change. Park on a hill the front fender gap will change.

if you didn’t check or measure caster and it drives straight, then yes you are very lucky. Not impossible to do.

Caster is not a tire wearing setting, just camber and toe can wear the tires If out of whack.

Those adjustable upper arms are fine If you want that, probably get more caster if you need that. But they are not necessary to get your stock Chrysler corp car to drive correctly. The stock cam bolts give you adjustability for caster and camber and work just fine.

i agree that stock is good BUT the age of our cars and with more alignment's done the cam bracket in the body get week and one good pot hole can move the adjuster to move. With these control arms they are fixed at the body and hold better. if you got a trailer queen then stock is fine.