Switched from wanting a 4 link to Caltracs in the course of this thread.But sliders or shackles?

[biomedtechguy]

EDIT: I've taken this option off the list. It's "too much" of a drastic, dragstrip focused setup. Now it's between ladder bars, CalTracks, or the 2 triangulated 4 link systems (RMS or Gerst)
I could see if my primary use for my Roadrunner was the quarter mile, but if I work my way up to track days twice a month vs my average of 4-6 times a year, is it still worth it or "better" to do a "real" equal length 4 link vs a triangulated 4 link?
It's a given that I'm doing a 4 link, so I know lots of you have done great things with leaf springs, but I am definitely going 4 link, so having said that, what are the benefits and downside to doing this kind of rear suspension vs a RMS StreetLynx or Gerst?
Here's the Chassisworks "Battle Cruiser" setup:

Now that I have bought my 4 wheel Wilwood disc brakes, and I am getting the brakes and QA1 K-member and front suspension system installed, my next suspension move is the rear suspension, so I'm trying to narrow down the choices.
http://cachassisworks.com/p-1550-drag-race-sportsman-4-link-rear-suspension-3x2-crossmember.aspx

 

[Budnicks]

edited; 11:53 am pst 11/15/19
it didn't have the option of him even wanting CalTracs
when I answered his questions

I try to be specific about exactly what he asked for

spherical/heim joints don't really do 'real well' on the street
not for longevity

But;
IMO yes a 'real' 4 link is far better
(than the short long type)
with adj. shock mts & adjust coil overs
panhard bar or even better yet watts linkage

you'd have to do a shitload of mods to your floor
not sure it'd all fit under the back seat too

4 link it is the best style of rear suspension, for racing
with the right rod ends it can work very well on the street too
best for infinitely adj. suspension

IMO dbl adjustable ladder bars would be next best

then something like the Ridetech's, triangulated 4 bar & coil overs
would be even a great option,
easy peasy very little welding or alterations, mostly bolt in
the pro-touring guys love them

the others you mentioned would be my last choices

edited; 11/14/19 IMO, I'd do others mentioned 1st
I don't have any experience with the Gerst stuff
seen a few, seems like it may be decent
(best to ask someone "fast" that used them 'successfully', not just a sales guy)

some opinions/experiences will vary
that's mine, take it or leave it

 

[biomedtechguy]

EDIT: I changed my mind through the course of this thread and Budnicks did a great job of advising me on what I originally inquired about.

spherical/heim joints don't really do 'real well' on the street
not for longevity

So they say. They recommend measuring them and tossing them if they show even a little "stretch", or once a year regardless.

you'd have to do a shitload of mods to your floor
not sure it'd all fit under the back seat too

I don't care much about being able to reverse modifications, but I would like to keep the back seat if possible. That may change if the back seat doesn't allow for the WIDE rear tubs/tires I want to get.
I'm looking for "restomod/pro-touring" not "race track only". Although I have NO plans to sell the Roadrunner, I would like to increase or not diminish its value. My experience has been a well done restomod/pro-touring setup adds A LOT of value, but "racetrack" usually drastically reduces the value of the car.

some opinions/experiences will vary
that's mine, take it or leave it

I ALWAYS appreciate your advice Budnicks!
Even if I don't always follow it
By the time I get some of these things done, I may ask more than once.
By the way, I'm FINALLY getting the front suspension I've owned for a year installed!
Thanks for your help with that too!

 

[Budnicks]

I ALWAYS appreciate your advice Budnicks!
Even if I don't always follow it
By the time I get some of these things done, I may ask more than once.
By the way, I'm FINALLY getting the front suspension I've owned for a year installed!
Thanks for your help with that too!

good luck with that

& you're welcome

 

[Ceedawg]

I would look in the junk yards for a “factory” type 4 link. Many examples out there (that have rear seats) One that’s been engineered to go 250,000 miles instead of a hodgepodge of put together parts. Using factory lower and upper arms with rubber joints and connections, possibilities are endless.

 

[Dodge 330]

Why?!

A Cal-Trac setup with split mono's works great on the street and will compete (if not surpass) any of those.

My car is really comfortable on the street. 4 clicks of the Calvert shocks to firm them up, and it has run 1.45 60 ft.'s with a best of 1.37. All with the same 275 tires and pressures that I drive everywhere with!

I run right there with guys that spent big $$$ to tub, ladderbar/fourlink and narrow their rearends.

 

[Kern Dog]

It has been shown that these aftermarket suspensions offer no clear advantage over a well sorted stock based suspension.
The vendors will say otherwise.....I wonder what their motivation is for that?

 

[biomedtechguy]

I would look in the junk yards for a “factory” type 4 link. Many examples out there (that have rear seats) One that’s been engineered to go 250,000 miles instead of a hodgepodge of put together parts. Using factory lower and upper arms with rubber joints and connections, possibilities are endless.

My wife's 65 GTO has a "factory 4 link"...
When I replaced the 8.2 Pontiac rear axle that I blew up on the 1320 (and I celebrated killing that open, weak assed rear axle) the Ford based 9" axle assembly was the go to. I upgraded the upper and lower control arms with UMI suspension parts and also installed the suspension mount braces. The last phase of that saga are finally coming to a close. Quick Performance failed to weld the adjustable lower control arm brackets, designed to work with the lift bars (that replace the lower control arms) after it was specifically discussed and agreed on in a 3 way conference call when I was choosing the design and what parts were going to be used, so they are making me a new housing for the GTO. In the meantime, I decided to go coilover vs the separate spring and shock factory layout. I also had the housing narrowed the first time about 1/3rd of an inch too much, so the new housing is 1/2" wider than the last one, which is about 1/4" narrower than stock. I'm hoping the existing axles will be long enough so I don't have to pay for new axles.

Why?!
A Cal-Trac setup with split mono's works great on the street and will compete (if not surpass) any of those.
My car is really comfortable on the street. 4 clicks of the Calvert shocks to firm them up, and it has run 1.45 60 ft.'s with a best of 1.37. All with the same 275 tires and pressures that I drive everywhere with!
I run right there with guys that spent big $$$ to tub, ladderbar/fourlink and narrow their rearends.

I knew that I'd get a response like that, and that's fine, but I want a 4 link, it suits the direction I am taking my car in.

 

[biomedtechguy]

One of the reasons why I'm changing to coilovers in the GTO is the red air leveling bags that were in the car when we bought it don't work with the QP spring perches, so they are in the pix, but were removed right after. I bought new stock height Moog springs, and 3 way adjustable drag shocks, but for some reason the car sits low in the back, like a boat or a gasser, and I don't want to bandaid the ride height after investing so much time, planning, and money into what will be a top notch rear suspension system.
Here's a few pix of the GTO rear suspension and the 4 wheel Wilwood disc brake system I had installed in the GTO a little over a year ago:
Line lock and new booster on the Wilwood master cylinder. (I have manual brakes on the Roadrunner, and the Wilwood replacement is going to be manual brakes too-I prefer that.)

UMI UCAs w/roto joints:

 

[Hemirunner]

I could see if my primary use for my Roadrunner was the quarter mile, but if I work my way up to track days twice a month vs my average of 4-6 times a year, is it still worth it or "better" to do a "real" equal length 4 link vs a triangulated 4 link?
It's a given that I'm doing a 4 link, so I know lots of you have done great things with leaf springs, but I am definitely going 4 link, so having said that, what are the benefits and downside to doing this kind of rear suspension vs a RMS StreetLynx or Gerst?
Here's the Chassisworks "Battle Cruiser" setup:
View attachment 865534
Now that I have bought my 4 wheel Wilwood disc brakes, and I am getting the brakes and QA1 K-member and front suspension system installed, my next suspension move is the rear suspension, so I'm trying to narrow down the choices.
http://cachassisworks.com/p-1550-drag-race-sportsman-4-link-rear-suspension-3x2-crossmember.aspx

The only way I would consider the suspension pictured in your original post is if the car were a full time drag car. I’m not sure why this would even be a consideration on your car? Converting to an auto would gain far more than this will yield and this will definitely kill the resale value. Just having a 6pt bar in mine turned away 90% of the potential buyers.

 

[biomedtechguy]

The only way I would consider the suspension pictured in your original post is if the car were a full time drag car. I’m not sure why this would even be a consideration on your car? Converting to an auto would gain far more than this will yield and this will definitely kill the resale value. Just having a 6pt bar in mine turned away 90% of the potential buyers.

You're giving me pause for concern.

 

[vintage chromoly]

Please leave that poor car be.

This is all just folly at this point.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Please leave that poor car be.

This is all just folly at this point.

While I may throw out questions on the forum, or ideas that I may or may not follow through with, "that poor car" is already better off than it was when I bought it.
If you are a nut and bolt everything has to be right by the book don't change anything guy, you may object to what I'm doing, and certainly what I may ask about from time to time.
Poor car? Folly?
You sound like a purist car snob.
Look, I appreciate the feedback, but that sounds like an insult, and I reject that part of your post.
Let me explain:
There are 2 local guys, brothers, who have their 70 Roadrunners looking great. One is a numbers matching 383 auto car, and the other is a 426 Hemi (not originally) 4 speed car. They have done the "original" factory thing, and done it well. We were all in the World of Wheels, and I got 3rd place...behind them. I'll always be 3rd behind them, in the "stock" category, because I am not looking for a "stock" car, either in appearance or performance.
My "poor car" has benefitted from my ownership, quite a lot. It had 3 different bolts holding the bellhousing to the block, and I changed them out to where at least all of the bolts are the same kind, high strength, so they work properly.
There are a number of issues that I'm working to correct. I have come to believe, because of the replies in this thread, that an equal length 4 link, while it may provide the best performance, is a little too much from a visual perspective for what I want. The Gerst or RMS triangulated rear suspension however will look fine, and in my opinion work better than leaf springs or a CalTracks setup.
So under my stewardship I am very conscientious about what I do to my car, but I also want to improve its performance and move it in a restomod pro-touring direction, with a quarter mile racetrack "tilt".
I've seen mini tubbed cars that kept the back seat, and the view in the trunk looks like it could be original.
So please, I appreciate your advice, but I reject the label "poor car" and "folly".

 

[Dodge 330]

My point was, a lot of people spend money in areas they don't need to instead of refining what is there.

Build your car the way you like. Lots of people have told me I should cut/tub my car over the years and thankfully I resisted because it was not what I wanted.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Lots of people have told me I should cut/tub my car over the years and thankfully I resisted because it was not what I wanted.

And I think most classic muscle cars look great with really wide rear tires, but nothing looks as good as a B-Body MOPAR with really wide tires in the back! In my opinion, some B-body MOPARS look WAY better, as in "must have", wider tires in the rear or they look like a fat, WIDE hips woman with skinny legs, tiny ankles and feet!
So needing more grip, and liking the look, and wanting that grip with drag radials means that mini tubs are likely in my Roadrunner. I have 315/35/17s and that or a similar tire will be what I have for a while, but when I address the trunk pan, which needs some work-at least paint if not replacement, that is likely when I'll do the mini tubs.

 

[biomedtechguy]

This is, to me, what looks best on a B-Body and is the look I want for my Roadrunner (but not the spoiler on the Sublime car, although it's not that bad, and I can do without the wheelie bars)

 

[6PKRTSE]

I think 4 links are best for the bracket racer looking consistency. With today's shock technology and tire technology a simple caltrac set up works for me.

 

[Ceedawg]

My wife's 65 GTO has a "factory 4 link"...
When I replaced the 8.2 Pontiac rear axle that I blew up on the 1320 (and I celebrated killing that open, weak assed rear axle) the Ford based 9" axle assembly was the go to. I upgraded the upper and lower control arms with UMI suspension parts and also installed the suspension mount braces. The last phase of that saga are finally coming to a close. Quick Performance failed to weld the adjustable lower control arm brackets, designed to work with the lift bars (that replace the lower control arms) after it was specifically discussed and agreed on in a 3 way conference call when I was choosing the design and what parts were going to be used, so they are making me a new housing for the GTO. In the meantime, I decided to go coilover vs the separate spring and shock factory layout. I also had the housing narrowed the first time about 1/3rd of an inch too much, so the new housing is 1/2" wider than the last one, which is about 1/4" narrower than stock. I'm hoping the existing axles will be long enough so I don't have to pay for new axles.

I knew that I'd get a response like that, and that's fine, but I want a 4 link, it suits the direction I am taking my car in.

I like what you did and doing. Definitely like the coil overs.

 

[vintage chromoly]

Let me explain.

You own a V code car (you know the significance as you reference that aspect of the car regularly)
As such, there is some responsibility to not clown it up. (My opinion, of course)

Throwing every whiz bang aftermarket gadget at it with zero coherent theme or direction is wacky, expensive and likely will result in a poorly coordinated car.

Mini tubbing that car would be a really bad idea.

My apologies, if you find this criticism harsh or insulting.

While I may throw out questions on the forum, or ideas that I may or may not follow through with, "that poor car" is already better off than it was when I bought it.
If you are a nut and bolt everything has to be right by the book don't change anything guy, you may object to what I'm doing, and certainly what I may ask about from time to time.
Poor car? Folly?
You sound like a purist car snob.
Look, I appreciate the feedback, but that sounds like an insult, and I reject that part of your post.
Let me explain:
There are 2 local guys, brothers, who have their 70 Roadrunners looking great. One is a numbers matching 383 auto car, and the other is a 426 Hemi (not originally) 4 speed car. They have done the "original" factory thing, and done it well. We were all in the World of Wheels, and I got 3rd place...behind them. I'll always be 3rd behind them, in the "stock" category, because I am not looking for a "stock" car, either in appearance or performance.
My "poor car" has benefitted from my ownership, quite a lot. It had 3 different bolts holding the bellhousing to the block, and I changed them out to where at least all of the bolts are the same kind, high strength, so they work properly.
There are a number of issues that I'm working to correct. I have come to believe, because of the replies in this thread, that an equal length 4 link, while it may provide the best performance, is a little too much from a visual perspective for what I want. The Gerst or RMS triangulated rear suspension however will look fine, and in my opinion work better than leaf springs or a CalTracks setup.
So under my stewardship I am very conscientious about what I do to my car, but I also want to improve its performance and move it in a restomod pro-touring direction, with a quarter mile racetrack "tilt".
I've seen mini tubbed cars that kept the back seat, and the view in the trunk looks like it could be original.
So please, I appreciate your advice, but I reject the label "poor car" and "folly".

 

[biomedtechguy]

Thanks again for all the replies.
RMS StreetLynx or Gerst triangulated rear suspension system is where I came in to this thread, and that is where I'm at after all of the replies.
Not counting shocks?? it looks like a pair of split mono leafs, shackles, Calvert traction bar assembly, and HD spring pads are around $1,200-$1,400...
The triangulated 4 link is around $1,800 with coilovers.
That is so close in price, price is not the deciding factor.