The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

[Budnicks]

Well said Budnicks...

does anyone really think Russia/India/Finland/Mexico are hurrying to switch over and purchase a EV mpgmike?

yeah we do far more than "our fair share" for the planet
time for the others to do at-least as much as USA at a min.
before we give in to their ideological nonsense, costly expensive nonsense
that we don't even have now...
And not in the near future if voters have their say...

sick of that **** being shoved down my throat
because the Eurotrash Eco-Nazi Ideology,
or some rich dude/s or politicians have stock in his EV company
or some Eltronic Engineer makes his living off it
Or that/them company/s, pays lobbyists to bribe the politicians
to get his/their way, to support their causes...

I ain't buying one anytime soon, no infrastructure for them
takes too long to charge, let alone our electrical grid
can't support 100,000,000 EV's pugged in every night
it can hardly handle what we have now
& the govt. forcing it on US
all negatives

I'm all for the everything & all the above approach
why not all aspects, IF the supply & demand open market dictates
it, the natural progression will be swayed to change
& "WE AIN'T THERE YET"
the Internal Combustion Engine is damn near perfect now
way less waste/pollutants, make huge power out of small CIDs
way more & fuel-efficient now
that all burn way cleaner than anything in
China, India, Russia, Mexico, Finland, Eurasia, Africa, South America
even many parts of Canada & Europe etc. etc. etc.

Some people always try to use that damn horse & buggy argument
as justification for their income/opinions/profits
it was a long time before it was widely accepted back then too
1886 Diamler & a 31 model A were 45 years apart
when the 31 Model A hit the road (millions of them)
& there were still people using 'horses & buggies' after that too
way into the 40's & even some into the 50's

Getting around easily/freedom to travel & Pres. Ike's infrastructure bill
is what made the Automobile take off,
not stopping every 6hrs/300 miles if even that, especially in cold weather
to recharge for 4-8 hrs,
when you can pull up to a pump & refill in like 5-10 min.'s at most
& back on the road
(not have to plug it in when you get to your destination or back home either)
EV's aren't like that yet... maybe in another 45 years they will be

the exact same argument was happening back in 1979 GM
(I know batteries are better )
they failed miserably the buying/driving public didn't want them
even when gas prices more than doubled under 'Jimmy Peanut Farmer Carter'

let alone the Amish

 

[super-bee_ski]

yeah we do far more than "our fair share" for the planet
time for the others to do at-least as much as USA at a min.
before we give in to their ideological nonsense, costly expensive nonsense
that we don't even have now...
And not in the near future if voters have their say...

sick of that **** being shoved down my throat
because the Eurotrash Eco-Nazi Ideology,
or some rich dude/s or politicians have stock in his EV company
or some Eltronic Engineer makes his living off it
Or that/them company/s, pays lobbyists to bribe the politicians
to get his/their way, to support their causes...

I ain't buying one anytime soon, no infrastructure for them
takes too long to charge, let alone our electrical grid
can't support 100,000,000 EV's pugged in every night
it can hardly handle what we have now
& the govt. forcing it on US
all negatives

I'm all for the everything & all the above approach
why not all aspects, IF the supply & demand open market dictates
it, the natural progression will be swayed to change
& "WE AIN'T THERE YET"
the Internal Combustion Engine is damn near perfect now
way less waste/pollutants, make huge power out of small CIDs
way more & fuel-efficient now
that all burn way cleaner than anything in
China, India, Russia, Mexico, Finland, Eurasia, Africa, South America
even many parts of Canada & Europe etc. etc. etc.

Some people always try to use that damn horse & buggy argument
as justification for their income/opinions/profits
it was a long time before it was widely accepted back then too
1886 Diamler & a 31 model A were 45 years apart
when the 31 Model A hit the road (millions of them)
& there were still people using 'horses & buggies' after that too
way into the 40's & even some into the 50's

Getting around easily/freedom to travel & Pres. Ike's infrastructure bill
is what made the Automobile take off,
not stopping every 6hrs/300 miles if even that, especially in cold weather
to recharge for 4-8 hrs,
when you can pull up to a pump & refill in like 5-10 min.'s at most
& back on the road
(not have to plug it in when you get to your destination or back home either)
EV's aren't like that yet... maybe in another 45 years they will be

the exact same argument was happening back in 1979 GM
(I know batteries are better )
they failed miserably the buying/driving public didn't want them
even when gas prices more than doubled under 'Jimmy Peanut Farmer Carter'

let alone the Amish



View attachment 1250024

 

[33 IMP]

That's either a photoshop, or the owner is a complete IDIOT. That is a volt, it HAS a gasoline engine.
Edit: tree'd by Photon 440 by a whole day! Post#30 (I suppose I could delete this and slink off into the night.... but I want to give him credit)

 

[mpgmike]

Well said Budnicks...
does anyone really think Russia/India/Finland/Mexico are hurrying to switch over and purchase a EV mpgmike?

I am most adamant about preserving human free agency. I cringe whenever government mandates anything -- even if I'm for it, government has no business legislating it. My Christian Bible spends quite a bit of text on how God gave us free agency, and how important it is to Him.

I 100% agree with those making posts questioning/arguing/lambasting California's EV mandate. California can legislate total emissions standards (even that I question), but it stretches my imagination to figure out how they can legally outlaw ICE powered automobiles when the rest of the world still uses that technology. However, I am most intrigued by EV potential. As an engineer, I see current weaknesses (at least better than most), and see the solutions being developed. Personally, I am developing solutions, so I'm biased!

I guess I get frustrated when folks categorically shoot down that which doesn't fit their preferences as "impossible" or "totally impractical -- EVER!". More so when I know they really only know what they read in the media, and not as an insider fighting on the front line.

 

[GetX'd]

I am most adamant about preserving human free agency. I cringe whenever government mandates anything -- even if I'm for it, government has no business legislating it. My Christian Bible spends quite a bit of text on how God gave us free agency, and how important it is to Him.

I 100% agree with those making posts questioning/arguing/lambasting California's EV mandate. California can legislate total emissions standards (even that I question), but it stretches my imagination to figure out how they can legally outlaw ICE powered automobiles when the rest of the world still uses that technology. However, I am most intrigued by EV potential. As an engineer, I see current weaknesses (at least better than most), and see the solutions being developed. Personally, I am developing solutions, so I'm biased!

I guess I get frustrated when folks categorically shoot down that which doesn't fit their preferences as "impossible" or "totally impractical -- EVER!". More so when I know they really only know what they read in the media, and not as an insider fighting on the front line.

I respect the knowledge of an engineer in the field and their points of view far mare than most. But I will try and clarify one thing about what CA does and doesn’t. It’s a one party state and they legislate what they want - when they want - to hell with what’s good for the people. Actually much of what they do is actually illegal and they often get challenged but drag things out in perpetuity to accomplish their objective. There’s a crystal clear word for the style of control here that I’ll let you guess - I want to stay outside of going political. But I believe You know of what I’m referring to. This place is pure poison.

 

[WileE]

I am most adamant about preserving human free agency. I cringe whenever government mandates anything -- even if I'm for it, government has no business legislating it. My Christian Bible spends quite a bit of text on how God gave us free agency, and how important it is to Him.

I 100% agree with those making posts questioning/arguing/lambasting California's EV mandate. California can legislate total emissions standards (even that I question), but it stretches my imagination to figure out how they can legally outlaw ICE powered automobiles when the rest of the world still uses that technology. However, I am most intrigued by EV potential. As an engineer, I see current weaknesses (at least better than most), and see the solutions being developed. Personally, I am developing solutions, so I'm biased!

I guess I get frustrated when folks categorically shoot down that which doesn't fit their preferences as "impossible" or "totally impractical -- EVER!". More so when I know they really only know what they read in the media, and not as an insider fighting on the front line.

So... where does the power to generate all that electricity come from ? Not nuclear, the whackos shut that down. Who controls the electric grid? Tell me... who ? Do you have a choice where you get your electric from ? I lived through *2* PHONY gas shortages. What happens when the "electric shortage" happens ? WHO has their finger on the "off" switch ?

 

[Photon440]

So... where does the power to generate all that electricity come from ? Not nuclear, the whackos shut that down. Who controls the electric grid? Tell me... who ? Do you have a choice where you get your electric from ? I lived through *2* PHONY gas shortages. What happens when the "electric shortage" happens ? WHO has their finger on the "off" switch ?

Which nuclear plants were shut down? There's still about 10% of the world's power generated by nuclear plants and the USA has more than anyone, plus many are being refurbished and equipped for future operations.

Currently, there are 55 new atomic power plants being built around the world. Canada's most populated province, Ontario, gets 60% of its power from nuclear.

Plant Vogtle, in Burke County, Georgia, is adding capacity with two new reactors under construction, to be opened by next year.

In 2020, the Department of Energy approved NuScale Power's SMR (Small Modular Reactor) which is going through a feasability study for Utah Associated Municipal Power Systems.

 

[WileE]

Which nuclear plants were shut down? There's still about 10% of the world's power generated by nuclear plants and the USA has more than anyone, plus many are being refurbished and equipped for future operation

Huh ? Is that a serious question ? By me, they shut down Shoreham, Indian point, Oyster Creek. There closing them down all over. All over the world !!!
{ Diablo Canyon, California's last nuclear power plant, is scheduled to begin shutting down in 2024. California is approaching an energy crossroads. In three years, its last nuclear plant will begin to power down and the state will lose its largest single source of emissions-free electricity. }

 

[Photon440]

Huh ? Is that a serious question ? By me, they shut down Shoreham, Indian point, Oyster Creek. There closing them down all over. All over the world !!!
{ Diablo Canyon, California's last nuclear power plant, is scheduled to begin shutting down in 2024. California is approaching an energy crossroads. In three years, its last nuclear plant will begin to power down and the state will lose its largest single source of emissions-free electricity. }

Yes, it was a real question, and I appreciate your answer. Yes, I understand some plants close down; it isn't always economical to do the work needed to get a new license, but as I mentioned, there are also new atomic power plants around the world opening up. Besides Georgia and Utah that I referred to, Ontario is also building a new one https://ipolitics.ca/2021/12/02/ge-...nergy,is viewed as the future of the industry.

I can understand people worrying about Diablo Canyon with it's nearby fault-line, but I can't comment on California in general - the anti-nuke population over there seems even stronger than the pro-environment groups.

 

[Richard Cranium]

I As an engineer ........

Tell us more about the train you drive; diesel or electric?

 

[mpgmike]

Tell us more about the train you drive; diesel or electric?

I work from home so we are a 1 legal registered vehicle family; a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4.0 I-6, converted to 5-speed manual.

My engineering efforts are applicable to anything DC powered, whether from a battery or AC/DC converter. We have developed a technology that thus far is able to do 2X the DC electrical work across a load (inductive or resistive) versus the battery energy used. In theory, we should be able to achieve a comfortable 5X with more refinement (for our non-English speaking members, that's pronounced "We Need More Money"). And no, it is not over-unity or free-energy any more than a wind mill or solar panel is; unless you consider free-energy to be energy that comes from a source you don't have to pay for (like the wind or sun). Using today's batteries and electric motors, our invention should double the range on the EV.

 

[JDmac72chrgr]

1: Take away govern funds to buy EVs, see who buys them. 2: It takes 20-30 yrs to get a new nuke APPROVED, it is now obsolete. 3: What is the "life span" of ALL associated equipmented in a nuke & steam plant equipment? 25-30 years roughly. So EXPENSIVE as hell to "rebuild" and keep on-line while waiting for a new (obsolete) plant
4: What will electrical load demands be in 25-30 years?? Grid upgrades are "chasing" load changes of the last 10 years & add environmental delays to THAT!! 5: Grid "technology" has allowed "hackers" to threaten grid!! 6: In south Jersey, coal plant for the Shore shutdown, nat gas line was to run WITH 23kv line but NIBY's cried so gas line & new GT plant plans pulled, hope homeowners on islands have $$$ to replace their 3 zone ac units' motors as voltage drop blows em up!!! 7: Seeing GT cogens shutting down too. 8: NJs largest solar is at EOL 9: Wind farm (govern owned, so ya know maint not done right!!) along shore PAST eol due to salty atmosphere, hope I'm not near it when it rips itself apart

 

[JDmac72chrgr]

Plant sees electrical spikes during summer, are EVs and their batteries able to handle them? If charger trips on fault, are people "smart enough" to reset" charger OR are they just going to bitch at electric company & DEMAND changes to electric company for their laziness/lack of knowledge??

FYI: NYC & thereby North Jersey, CT, Long Island overdue for a blackout as history has showed, are they ready??

 

[WileE]

Yes, it was a real question, and I appreciate your answer. Yes, I understand some plants close down; it isn't always economical to do the work needed to get a new license, but as I mentioned, there are also new atomic power plants around the world opening up. Besides Georgia and Utah that I referred to, Ontario is also building a new one https://ipolitics.ca/2021/12/02/ge-hitachi-to-build-billion-dollar-nuclear-power-plant-in-ontario/#:~:text=GE Hitachi Nuclear Energy, a North Carolina energy,is viewed as the future of the industry.

I can understand people worrying about Diablo Canyon with it's nearby fault-line, but I can't comment on California in general - the anti-nuke population over there seems even stronger than the pro-environment groups.

Besides the ones I mentioned, because I'm aware of them in my area, I then looked up "nuclear plants shutting down" . Wow ! Plants are closing, not only is US, but Germany, all over. The anti-nuke whackos have bamboozled the gutless politicians all over. we should be building MORE energy plants, NOT closing them.

 

[WileE]

I work from home so we are a 1 legal registered vehicle family; a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4.0 I-6, converted to 5-speed manual.

My engineering efforts are applicable to anything DC powered, whether from a battery or AC/DC converter. We have developed a technology that thus far is able to do 2X the DC electrical work across a load (inductive or resistive) versus the battery energy used. In theory, we should be able to achieve a comfortable 5X with more refinement (for our non-English speaking members, that's pronounced "We Need More Money"). And no, it is not over-unity or free-energy any more than a wind mill or solar panel is; unless you consider free-energy to be energy that comes from a source you don't have to pay for (like the wind or sun). Using today's batteries and electric motors, our invention should double the range on the EV.

And the answer to my question (#46) is ........

 

[F4R/T]

Coal is clean and safe... natural gas is even better.

 

[WileE]

Coal is clean and safe... natural gas is even better.

But we have to rely on various sources. Not one, not a just a few. The old adage, all your eggs in one basket. The intended overnight transformation is purely political, for money and power (pun intended). He who controls the source... controls.

 

[mpgmike]

And the answer to my question (#46) is ........

Partly by improving the efficiencies to the point where the same grid can do 2X+ the work.

 

[WileE]

Partly by improving the efficiencies to the point where the same grid can do 2X+ the work.

That's the answer to all 4 questions ? "Partly", ok what's the rest of the part ?

 

[mpgmike]

That's the answer to all 4 questions ? "Partly", ok what's the rest of the part ?

It starts with the Micro-Grid. Home owners installing solar panels are the Test Pilots for this concept. Individual homes and businesses would be equipped with battery arrays and a means of producing electricity. These Micro-Grids communicate with the local power company's Grid where the 2 share energy back and forth. This is an engineering concept you can find on the internet. It has already been initiated, and will grow and expand in the years to come.

Secondly, as power companies invest in solar and wind, these cyclical producers are made more reliably consistent with Grid-owned battery banks. When I say "battery", that invariably includes a mix of batteries and super capacitors.

The fact is power plants -- coal, nuclear, even hydro-electric to a lesser degree -- cannot be "turned up and down" by turning a knob. They take hours -- or even days to "change speed". This means they cannot turn it down at night when power demand is low, then crank it back up again in the morning. There is much energy generated that is just thrown away because the power companies cannot store it. With that said, loads like charging EVs could increase the Grid's TOTAL load without negatively affecting the PEAK demand if charged at night.

Some of the increased capacity comes from added generation capability (new plants, more solar/wind, and even individual home owners contributing to the Grid), some from increased ability to store energy in low demand periods, and part comes from smarter management of energy.