The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[fullmetaljacket]

trick it is nice stuff

Trick Titanium in Troy, Michigan provided these four 6AL-4V titanium K-member bolts way back in the 1990's. It was back to the scene of the original crime in Pro-Stock history by working with the successor of the successors of the crew that worked closely with Ted Spehar's Motown Missile program.
There was some rather interesting fasteners still on the shelves, dust and all.

View attachment 1485806

Before moving forward, one has to understand where the madness started back in '64.
Basically three sets of covert programs from different years made for some rather interesting reading for me. I was hooked and so was the car.

First and foremost are the 2% FX cars of which only (8) cars total were built between '64 and '65.
Secretly altered both in the suspension labs at Chrysler and at "The Alexander Brothers" custom shop in Detroit.

Second on those heels are the 11 '65 AFX radically altered wheelbase dragster cars. Again secretly altered and built first at the Chrysler labs (mule car) and then the rest were farmed out to Amblewagon in Detroit.

Third and not a turd by any stretch is "The Silver Bullet" Secretly weaponized and supported by Chrysler at the infamous Sunoco haunt on Woodward Ave and 14th. Ted Spehar had a hand at handing questionable parts over to Addison who was a master at tuning them to the upmost. The streets were on fire.

Attached below is the infamous 1964 memo sent to NHRA by Chryslers engineering and product planning head H.D.Reeker. It unilaterally started the whole debacle for the competition and heated debates.

 

[Badvert65]

Interesting. Sure would be nice to have a few of those items available today.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Interesting. Sure would be nice to have a few of those items available today.

Well if the parts are not available, sometimes they have to be made to be available.
Such is the case with the aluminum steering column jacket.

Allegedly, the 2% Hemi cars were equipped with this item made out of the light alloy as part of their dietary program in '64, but no definitive information has been shown that this is true. The memo above says so, but it still does not confirm that there was ever such a part made, especially when no part numbers were assigned.
Factory engineers are known to be wishful thinkers until the bean counters upstairs deflate their ideas based on budget constraints, but these 2% cars were not a regular production run (only 8 cars total between '64 and '65) and instead could be hidden from conservative eyes and ears. The engineers/racers probably stole themselves into the stamping rooms during the midnight hours and figured out a way to make a limited run of special parts.

I'll later explain what I saw with my very own eyes at the Nationals back in the 90's.

Anyhow's, here's an aluminum version of the factory FX version. Being that the steering column crosses the border between region #2 and region #1, it shaved 3 Lbs across both regions. The steel version weighed 5-1/2 Lbs bare. The aluminum version 2-1/2 Lbs.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Well if the parts are not available, sometimes they have to be made to be available.
Such is the case with the aluminum steering column jacket.

Allegedly, the 2% Hemi cars were equipped with this item made out of the light alloy as part of their dietary program in '64, but no definitive information has been shown that this is true. The memo above says so, but it still does not confirm that there was ever such a part made, especially when no part numbers were applied.
Factory engineers are known to be wishful thinkers until the bean counters upstairs deflate their ideas based on budget constraints, but these 2% cars were not a regular production run (only 8 cars total between '64 and '65) and instead could be hidden from conservative eyes and ears. The engineers/racers probably stole themselves into the stamping rooms during the midnight hours and figured out a way to make a limited run of special parts.

I'll later explain what I saw with my very own eyes at the Nationals back in the 90's.

Anyhow's, here's an aluminum version of the factory FX version. Being that the steering column crosses the border between region #2 and region #1, it shaved 3 Lbs across both regions. The steel version weighed 5-1/2 Lbs bare. The aluminum version 2-1/2 Lbs.

View attachment 1486378

Aluminum steering column jacket painted and assembled with chrome moly shaft and ready for install. STOCK!

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Aluminum steering column jacket painted and assembled with chrome moly shaft and ready for install. STOCK!

View attachment 1486386

Aluminum steering column jacket with A-990 shift pattern setup.

 

[POMONAMISSEL]

this request is total left field , but does amyone have the factory specs for the 64 race hemi cams ?

 

[fullmetaljacket]

this request is total left field , but does amyone have the factory specs for the 64 race hemi cams ?

I'm too LIGHT HEADED to know the exact numbers for that question, but from what I've read the lift is 0.520 inch flat tappet.
Intake open -36 BTDC. Close-84 degrees ATDC.
Exhaust open -80 degrees ATDC. Close - 40 degrees ATDC.
Overlap - 76 degrees.
Dur Int and Ex 300 degrees. I believe that this is at 0.50 lift.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I'm too LIGHT HEADED to know the exact numbers for that question, but from what I've read the lift is 0.520 inch flat tappet.
Intake open -36 BTDC. Close-84 degrees ATDC.
Exhaust open -80 degrees ATDC. Close - 40 degrees ATDC.
Overlap - 76 degrees.
Dur Int and Ex 300 degrees. I believe that this is at 0.50 lift.

SR Indy aluminum heads round out the top of the motor to shave 50 Lbs from the previous fully dressed iron 906 castings. A pair of 906 heads with all gear weighed 107 Lbs. A pair of fully geared SR heads 57 Lbs.

I suspect if I would have hogged out the runners to Max wedge size, I would have removed a few more ounces. LOL. I decided against such a common practice and stayed with a standard runners/window in order to have some much needed torque during street calls of duty. The trick back then was really in the suspension along with weight management to keep it from running away. Small tire, small chambers and lightness makes for a pretty decent package.

BTW, those are the talented hands of DVW measuring components as we changed springs back in Halloween of last year. Couldn't have done it without him. He did this all while hovering over and never leaning on the front "Tender Fenders" like a Yoga master. Guy is going to outlive us all.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Note that this very very early 2% cherry is still running vent windows on the doors and an out going Max Wedge scoop. It also doesn't have the AFX bubble plexiglass windshield that they came with or were later delivered. I guess the ventless aluminum doors and Hemi wide mouth scoop were yet to be delivered as well.
But most notably is the nibble of metal off the front portion of the wheel well opening to make way for tire clearance with its 3" forward march.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Note that this very very early 2% cherry is still running vent windows on the doors and an out going Max Wedge scoop. I guess the ventless aluminum doors and Hemi wide mouth scoop were yet to be delivered.
But most worthy is the nibble of metal off the front portion of the wheel well opening to make way for tire clearance with its 3" forward march.

View attachment 1486844

Felix The Cats little bag of tricks. Some of these are only strong enough to hold up a built sheet, while others are brave and sure.

 

[Badvert65]

OK, I can figure out what the aluminum and titanium bolts might be used for. Where would the nylon stuff get used?

 

[gooser]

i used the nylon bolts for my fenders (fiberglass) been in service since 1977 on my charger and1995 on the roadrunner no problems

 

[bearman]

Nylon for bumpers and fenders and anything else. My down fall will be putting all the trim back on. Just can't bring myself to leave it off. So need to find more hp to make up for it. Lol

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Nylon for bumpers and fenders and anything else. My down fall will be putting all the trim back on. Just can't bring myself to leave it off. So need to find more hp to make up for it. Lol

Quite honestly, the only use of nylon fasteners on my car (which breaks protocol with its namesake FullMetalJacket) are things like holding up license plates.

 

[bearman]

I'll see how good or how long they last once the car is running and doing what it suppose to do instead of looking like a flower pot. I have been working with the body work and suspension still not done with that yet but it's okay. I have seen a few guys using nylon bolt etc on their rides and holding up well so here is to hoping. Your input to a diet for these heavy hitters is very important specially where to diet and where not too. Thanks.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I'll see how good or how long they last once the car is running and doing what it suppose to do instead of looking like a flower pot. I have been working with the body work and suspension still not done with that yet but it's okay. I have seen a few guys using nylon bolt etc on their rides and holding up well so here is to hoping. Your input to a diet for these heavy hitters is very important specially where to diet and where not too. Thanks.

The welcome is well felt.
The use of good T- strength aluminum to hold up fenders and such over Nylon would be preferred. What gives assurance to use nylon is that there are multiples of them holding one item as apposed to relying on one fastener to do the same job. Like mentioned, good results have come from using the nylon, but there is the shear factor to consider though. Vibrations and such can make things go funny.
There are soft and hard nylons out there just like there are in aluminum, one just has to look deeper into each one and its limitations.
Talking on bolts. Over the years, 7 Lbs worth of certain factory fasteners were replaced on the front end alone with good grade aluminum types resulting in almost 4 Lbs removed. This is not counting the countless others throughout that have since been replaced with titanium and or aluminum. Some saving weight as little as 1.80 ounce.
In the case below, the steering box cover bolts are hi grade aluminum and the mounting bolts are hi grade titanium shaving almost a 1/4 pound off the front.
Note titanium fasteners and lock washers for the oil pump.
Nope, not an aluminum A-990 oil pump since they were prone to premature wear out by the steel cogs inside of an aluminum shell.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

The welcome is well felt.
The use of good T- strength aluminum to hold up fenders and such over Nylon would be preferred. What gives assurance to use nylon is that there are multiples holding one item as apposed to relying on one fastener to do the same job. Like mentioned, good results have come from using the nylon, but there is the shear factor to consider though. Vibrations and such can make things go funny.
There are soft and hard nylons out there just like there are in aluminum, one just has to look deeper into each one and its limitations.
Talking on bolts. Over the years, 7 Lbs of fasteners were replaced on the front end alone with good grade aluminum types resulting in almost 4 Lbs removed. This is not counting the countless others throughout that have since been replaced with titanium and or aluminum. Some saving weight as little as 1.80 ounce.
In the case below, the steering box cover bolts are hi grade aluminum and the mounting bolts are hi grade titanium shaving almost a 1/2 pound off the front.
Note titanium fasteners and lock washers for the oil pump.
Nope, not an aluminum A-990 oil pump.

View attachment 1488097

Though my friends '68 Hemi Coronet has gone a modest distance with his diet, he went A-wall with hiding the light stuff in plain sight. Here's his straining work to make an aluminum bolt look like a factory one.
Basing it on the FMJ manifesto, he beat me to it because he has a little more time to play then I do and is also entering the car in shows. The one on the left is virgin factory and the one on the right is virgin aluminum without the cast iron/steel paint applied.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Though my friends '68 Hemi Coronet has gone a modest distance with his diet, he went A-wall with hiding the light stuff in plain sight. Here's his straining work to make an aluminum bolt look like a factory one.
Basing it on the FMJ manifesto, he beat me to it because he has a little more time to play then I do and is also entering the car in shows. The one on the left is virgin factory and the one on the right is virgin aluminum without the cast iron/steel paint applied.

View attachment 1488102

An aluminum T-2024 bolt recessed and painted.
STOCK bolt everybody! Oh my, a BOLT of LIGHTning almost struck me. LOL.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

An aluminum T-2024 bolt recessed and painted.
STOCK bolt everybody! Oh my, a BOLT of LIGHTning almost struck me. LOL.

View attachment 1488105

Under the micrometer measuring tool by New York's own "Special K" for thickness verification.
These are genuine A-990 thin gauge fenders on the DODGE that helped remove 20-1/2 Lbs without the use of fiberglass replicas. There's nothing wrong with glass, but I just wanted to keep with the concept of the car by using all metal products factory or handmade. In this case, factory race weight parts.

Factory standard fenders on a '65 weigh 58-1/2 Lbs for a bare pair.
Factory lightweight fenders for a '65 weigh 38 Lbs for a bare pair.

There has been a debate over the years as to what gauge these fenders originally were from the factory based on what a factory memo indicated and what the actual fenders are. Also there's a common belief that they were (chemically milled) acid dipped as apposed too thin gauge stampings. I beg to differ on the first myth. I suspect they were thin gauge stampings stemming from a comparison of the gauge of these fenders against an NOS pair of fenders that Jim Kramer owns.
Jim went out and measured the fenders themselves and related the info to me. 0.024. I then went and had Special K here measure them and whalaaah, 0.024. They were the same readings throughout all the areas including the ever so important edges.

Why the edges?

Chemical milling (acid dipping) tends to leave irregularities on the larger plains and inconsistent edges whereas these fenders were the same gauge everywhere.
What complicates things even more is that contested early factory memo for the gauge of the lightweight fenders. They were not only confusing in indicating 0.018 (thinner) but the eventual fenders released to production of the '65 A990 package cars tended to be a little less tender at a tad thicker 0.024. Still way lighter than stock units.

Why all of this? R&D!

I truly believe that in the midst of trying to emulate the weightlessness of the prior years aluminum panels, now outlawed, they tried going wafer thin as possible. It could be that early testing of the thinner stampings PROBABLY resulted in distorted/warped panels after shakedown runs, handling and contact during engine servicing. Perhaps they (the factory) never even bothered revising the memo with their new findings for redistribution. This of course is not mentioning continuous cracking at certain mounting points.
Not a good look, even for a new race car.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Under the micrometer measuring tool by New York's own "Special K" for thickness verification.
These are genuine A-990 thin gauge fenders on the DODGE that helped remove 20-1/2 Lbs without the use of fiberglass replicas. There's nothing wrong with glass, but I just wanted to keep with the concept of the car by using all metal products handmade or factory. In this case factory raceweight parts.
Factory standard fenders on a '65 weigh 58-1/2 Lbs for a bare pair.
Factory lightweight fenders for a '65 weigh 38 Lbs for a bare pair.

There has been a debate over the years as to what gauge these fenders originally were from the factory being that common belief is that they were (chemically milled) acid dipped, but I beg to differ. I suspect they were thin gauge stampings stemming from a comparison of the gauge of these fenders against an NOS pair of fenders that Jim Kramer owns.
Jim went out and measured the fenders themselves and related the info to me. I then went and had Special K here measure them and whala, they were the same readings throughout all the areas including the ever so important edges.
Why the edges?
Chemical milling (acid dipping) tends to leave irregularities on the larger plains and inconsistent edges whereas these fenders were the same gauge everywhere.
What complicates things even more is the fact that the factory memo for the gauge of the lightweight fenders were not only wrong (thinner) but that the eventual fenders released to production of the '65 A990 package cars were a tad thicker.
Why?
I truly believe early testing of the thinner stampings PROBABLY resulted in distorted/warped panels after shakedown runs, handling and contact during engine servicing, not to mention continuous cracking.
Not a good look, even for a new race car.

View attachment 1489295

A fiend at making all things perfect and straight, "The Palm Reader" as I call him, applied little or no body filler to hide the numerous pot marks from curious knuckles over the years, so a lot of patient sanding sessions went on over and over again till they were perfectly straight.