The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[Cranky]

Yes. They have been in service since 2012.
At the time, I wish I had the time to make the clamp hangers themselves. I sourced the rubber at a local rubber surplus store, but just didn't have the time. I also thought the thick rubber was heavier than the metal. LOL.

I hung a complete exhaust system on a 66 Mustang Fastback using springs....springs from a brake system. Took it to a state inspection station months later and they said heck no so went to another station and mentioned it before the guy even looked at the car and he lit up.....just had to see it and he liked it. Drove off with a new sticker.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I hung a complete exhaust system on a 66 Mustang Fastback using springs....springs from a brake system. Took it to a state inspection station months later and they said heck no so went to another station and mentioned it before the guy even looked at the car and he lit up.....just had to see it and he liked it. Drove off with a new sticker.

Those are stiff springs for such a task. Mad light though.

Were you guys in a bind and a hurry?
Was that Mustang on a serious diet?

 

[Cranky]

Those are stiff springs for such a task. Mad light though.

Were you guys in a bind and a hurry?
Was that Mustang on a serious diet?

I put the exhaust on myself and didn't feel like going to the parts house for hangers lol. 289 and T10 with a 2.80 gear. Torker intake, 600 DP, headers....everything else was stock and no real diet but the battery was in the back. Car was 3050 lbs. and ran a 15 flat with that 2.80 gear. The combo pulled down just a hair over 20 mpg on the highway but around town it was more like 10 or worse.

 

[gooser]

lee this time you beat me by 7 years with the aluminum clamps back in the day when we would go to the mopar drag seminars mr hoover would tell us to share info with others thank you for sharing

 

[Cranky]

lee this time you beat me by 7 years with the aluminum clamps back in the day when we would go to the mopar drag seminars mr hoover would tell us to share info with others thank you for sharing

Went to a seminar in Houston in the 70's....5 guys showed up. With that said, Houston never was a Mopar town but went to a Hemi fest a couple of years ago at the now defunct Houston Raceway Park and that place was packed. It was mostly newer cars and trucks but anything with a Hemi was welcomed and it was packed full. Never seen so many 10 second vehicles with license plates and there were several in the 9's too.

 

[stage3]

Rear tranny ears to reduce forward-backward movement. It has a front engine plate. Radius rods allow adjustability and flex up and down. Long titanium bolts and nuts hold things together.

i want to do that also,
do u remember what size the holes on the tranny ears are ? distance between them and cross member ? thanks!

 

[fullmetaljacket]

lee this time you beat me by 7 years with the aluminum clamps back in the day when we would go to the mopar drag seminars mr hoover would tell us to share info with others thank you for sharing

Gooser.
You're most welcome. Just ideas and results.
I totally understand that certain things are either impossible to find, build or purchase, but if the determination is for real, then anything is possible within reason.
There are things on this project in motion that are too long to list on here, but at least the main course is being shined on. The smaller, smallest things are endless. Though as they say, the devil is in the details. LOL.

When I get a moment, I'll post some interesting stuff underneath that I still need to find the flicks of. The computer has been coughing lately.
Here's a question: If you get into an almost unbearably hot shower, what's the temperature difference of the water at the shower head and the shower stall floor? You'd be surprised.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

i want to do that also,
do u remember what size the holes on the tranny ears are ? distance between them and cross member ? thanks!

I'll try and measure the distance when I get back to the thing, but it is not the stock distance because of the set back. It can differ from car to car. The main bolts that hold one end of the rods come down from the interior through the crossmembers part of the floor which is the strongest part.
As far as the ear sizes, they are 9/16 shank size. It could differ for later transmissions. This one is a '64-'65 push button/cable unit.
Quite honestly, a mid plate is the best way to go about such a setup, but some have no room or room for patience to set it up that way.

 

[weedburner]

With all the attention to ounces, what's up with the excessively long bolts?

Grant

 

[fullmetaljacket]

With all the attention to ounces, what's up with the excessively long bolts?

Grant

Trust me, the ounces have taken paramount stance elsewhere on this thing. The long bolts are for safer thread count outside of the nut, plus they weigh close to an aluminum bolt, but are titanium. Titanium is extremely hard to cut, machine or bend.

 

[rmchrgr]

"The easiest way to save 100 lbs on a race car is to find 1600 places to save an ounce." Words to live by.

If one has a lathe, bolts can easily be drilled out. Additionally, bolt heads can be lightened with a 135 degree drill bit, kind of like a counterbore. I’ve read where people have used half-height jam nuts to reduce weight but that may not provide enough strength in all situations.

Bolts only need to be long enough to fully engage the threads of the nut as long as that length is equal to the bolt diameter. Some critical bolts should be longer to improve tensile strength and resistance to shear but as FMJ knows there are plenty of instances where extra bolt length can be trimmed without consequence.

Everything is a trade off. Street machines have a little less leeway just because you’re on the road with others and compromises in fasteners could be significant in a collision or what have you. Dedicated race cars generally have more safety built into them so some fasteners may not have to be as robust. Just have to keep the bigger picture in mind and choose your battles wisely.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Food for thought during the next several days. Here are early pictures 2011-2012 of the early stages of a much debated item.
An all aluminum tube exhaust system.

As a little bit of a reminder for most here, but some may not know is the fact that Pontiac in their quest to dominate the drag racing scene in the early 1960's developed a limited run of ill fated aluminum exhaust manifolds. Keep that in mind: exhaust manifolds, not exhaust pipes.
These sets were slated for their already lightened Swiss cheese Super Duty Catalinas of '63, but I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow slipped a few sets of these controversial manifolds into the very rare aluminum nosed Tempest's of that same year. In any case, the results were disastrous at the very end of the quarter mile and or after a days worth of racing.
As Murphy would have it, they melted like the wicked witch of the west in Oz.
This inevitable outcome was based on a number of things. First and foremost, the aluminum material used in those days were inferior to the T aluminum alloys used for heads and blocks today.
I've heard that the ones that did have meltdowns occurred right there at the head/port window where the temperatures can be 1300F. Aluminum can melt or crack at 1210 degrees.

So what about downstream temperature readings with headers? Headers can't possibly sustain the same temp as it travels through the primary tubes and out to the mess hall of the collectors, but they should sustain a reasonable amount of heat in order to travel and scavenge faster.
So what would the collector temps be? Surprisingly they were 900-950F on this thing which was just south of the line of fire for aluminum. Remember the shower head theory? that's exactly what is happening here, the further down, further down went the temperatures.

T-6061 aluminum tubing was chosen from the well stocked racks of S&K Speed out on Long Island where a lot of Turbo cars get their little and large odds and ends to no end. They have almost every OD size tube in aluminum, stainless or mild steel 45* 60* 80* degree bends and straight. Lots of measuring went into this to be able to dock them to the collectors.

 

[gooser]

what is the thickness of the pipe and what is the od of the pipe?

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Before going any further and to understand the command to go with this setup, one has to see where it all started.

This thing never had a full exhaust system all the way to the rear bumper, instead, it ended just shy of the rear end itself with the classic dumps facing downward. Even then, the system (3-1/2" from the collectors reducing down to 3" Dr Gas X-pipe to a set of Flow masters and dumps) had some lard to it weighing in at 58 Lbs or so, IIRC.
The wishful thinking goal was to trim the underbelly weight with an exact replica of the system in Titanium, ha-ha-ha, but the co$t$ were going to OUTWEIGH the results.
The Masters were shown the door and the better flowing Ultra Flo mufflers from Dynomax became stand-ins for a short while as plans were being drawn up to go with a wafer thin 321 stainless tubing system. Perhaps this would be the most reasonable and closest to an ultimate lightweight exhaust system.
But weight! there's more.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

what is the thickness of the pipe and what is the od of the pipe?

The numbers are not in front right now, but it could safely be said that the thickness is the same as any other steel tubing. No need to go any thinner with aluminum.
The OD is definitely 3-1/2" as you see it here all the way to the X-intersection. They reduce from there on to 3".
The X was the most difficult to measure, cut and weld out of the whole deal. They are made from two 90 degree sections.

What I love about speed shops like S&K is that you can pretty much mock up a whole system right there in their aisles with all the bends and straight sections at your disposal.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Research into thin gauge stainless steel carved a clear path to Burns Stainless out west. They have an arsenal of 321 military grade stainless tubing that is super thin wall and super light as well as their large assortment of reducers and clamping systems. I couldn't tear off the old steel system fast enough before this thin wall stuff was arriving at my door piece by piece and taking shape at the welding shop.
The super light weight mufflers produced by Straight-line performance were light indeed, but not decibel DB sound friendly. Without a good muffler candidate in sight, the Dynomax Ultra-Flo's ended up on the new 321 system and on to the scales it all went. 44 lbs.
On to the car it went thereafter at 14 lbs lighter from 58 Lbs, but the exhaust notes were pronounced as sound seemed to sweat out through the thin skin stainless tubing.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

When it came to the Muff's I was muffled myself as to how to make 'em. Dynomax's Ultra Flows which were part of the set up for some time were the best flowing and sounding, but were steel, bulky and heavy.

The Ultra Flow body shells are like shoebox '55 Chevies which I thought created unnecessary drag underneath. To counter that and in anticipation of building lightweight versions, I made up some drawings (attached below) of swooped aerodynamic outer shells and started the process of patenting them. Made of wafer thin stainless, it all seamed feasible until the attempt to accurately drill out a perforated pattern in the stainless tubing. I walked away holding only a bunch of dulled out or broken drill bits and a useless 3" tube.
There was a stalemate, then somehow came along a wind of Unobtainium welding out in Canada. Chris, the headmaster there and I hit it off right off the cuff and he said, "I create unique exhaust pieces for Porsches, Ferraris and the like and this is crazy" and I said, "Yeah, it's crazy and this is a masterpiece theater exhaust for a Dodge.
This would be his first attempt at making a full aluminum shelled muffler. If any of you have a moment of spare to be dazzled, check out his stuff on his site. He's making incredible exhausts out of inconel, stainless, titanium and now aluminum.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Here's the Aluminum version of an Ultra-flow during it's first stages of construction. 3" OD straight through tube would be center inlet and offset outlet.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Inlet center.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Off-center outlet.