The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[fullmetaljacket]

I did that too! Made a mess of the floors. I added some weight back making a rear platform but the whole thing is still way lighter than the back seat. To be clear, this is A body stuff and I get my inspiration from the '68 Hemi super stock package cars.
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Can't find a decent set of A100 seats? For those of us that don't have magnesium sports-car seat frames laying around and/or lack the skill to make them into something that fits in our cars, Little Red Express seat frames are almost identical to A100 seat frames. I think they need to be cut down in some way but the basic framework is pretty close.
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Old '80s Jeep Scrambler seats are pretty light too. 22lbs with aluminum brackets. I got a pair for free from the dealership I worked at, the owner was throwing them out. I found the seat covers online somewhere. These are long gone from my car but I'm just throwing the idea out there. They wouldn't look right in a '60s B body but they fit my Duster pretty well. They were not terribly safe though.
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Just want to mention for comparison's sake that my Kirkey aluminum seat weighs 12lbs total. Comfy too with the extra foam bolster on the bottom and safer as the seats are bolted to the floor brackets through the sides in shear.


Different stuff than you're thinking of. It's Lizzard skin which is basically truck bed liner. It's not paint per se but it's not toxic either. It's like pigmented glue with texture in it and you spray it with a paint or schutz gun. Similar to Raptor Liner or what have you. Helps to deaden sound and insulates as well. It's pretty stable once it dries.

The adhesive-backed foil matting is what can give off fumes - I know from first-hand experience. Look at my second picture on the trans tunnel, that is the butyl backed crap that smells like asphalt. I will never use that stuff again. Forget trying to get it off either.

Nice to finally be here BTW even though I'm no longer a member of the B team. Hopefully none of your students will take offense to the A body content.

What I'd really like is if we can steer some of the F.A.S.T. guys over here to spill their weight-loss secrets. Fiberglass factory air cleaners anyone? Carbon fiber 'back seats'? Gun drilled axles? All of it? Yes please! See below.

F.A.S.T. weight reduction secrets revealed!

Welcome RmChrgr.
Though the billing overhead says B-body, loads can be found in every car model. A's, B's, C's, E's, you name it, tricks can cross pollinate. This thread is open to all models and years.
We would love to see what those F.A.S.T class guys with lots of class have to share. They are a sneaky skunk works bunch indeed.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

The invitation is open to include A-ll B-odi-E-s, just to be C-lear despite the threads headline above. Weight loss is a democratic objective.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Who would have thought other than vintage Jeeps, that newer model Jeeps would have attractive lightweight seat options. Looking into different seats from uncommon years or unusual models looks like a viable weight savings option as Rmchrgr has indicated.
I guess the same can be said about A-100 Van and fork lift seats being appropriated by the factory back in the 1960's. It was here where the famous A-100 seats were summoned into duty on the Super Stock B-cars of 1964-'65 and subsequently the A-cars in '68.

On the subject of seats, they're positioning can be a beneficial factor and I bet the F.A.S.T guys are exploiting this to the upmost.
In the past, some here have expressed their size and weight, so be it as it may, this can be advantageous for weight distribution.
A typical drivers weight of a couple of hundred pounds or more repositioned rearward by two inches or more can help the transfer of weight in your favor. It might be incremental, but the basis of this thread is "if it can't be replaced or removed entirely, then take it from one place and install it in another.
I guess this practice could be traced back to the early years of funny cars when they had hinged doors with engine set backs in the chassis and the drivers seating doing the same. Eventually because of design, the drivers were not only centered in the chassis, but set way back, sometimes even over the rear axles.

Keeping in mind that the factory seat mounting points are the strongest, they should still be considered to be used someway/somehow if the seats are moved rearward, forward, outward, wherever. Anything out of that ballpark of support is dangerous because the floor thickness in other areas are not sufficiently strong enough to keep the seat and driver in place in the event of a crash or roll over.
In any case, the largest washers should be used for more clamping spread over the floor.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

"All that can be seen should be seen as what it isn't"
Underneath is where things get interesting. Stay tuned.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

When I get back in later, I'll look at the records and state the numbers and other facts.

 

[Badvert65]

When I get back in later, I'll look at the records and state the numbers and other facts.

Is that a custom piece? I know the cast aluminum transmission pans (that I have seen) are heavier than the steel ones.

 

[rmchrgr]

Is that a custom piece? I know the cast aluminum transmission pans (that I have seen) are heavier than the steel ones.

It's a Moroso 727 pan. I have the same pan but for a 904. Now, the Summit cast pan I had previously was heavier than the Moroso but it was deeper so not a true apples-to-apples comparison.

Yes, the OE-style stamped steel pans are fairly light but both the Moroso and Summit pans I linked above are deeper and the threaded port in the front of the Moroso one is handy when you have a trans temp gauge. The cast pans also have a thicker, flat rail to (in theory) prevent leaks.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I’m not in front of my paperwork at this second but I can tell you that the Moroso pan as Rmchrgr said is light. Like 4 lbs lighter than the cast aluminum pan l had before. The deep steel pan l had years back was also lighter than the cast aluminum pan. I only went with the Moroso type for weight cutting, but most importantly temperature cutting reasons.

There’s other stuff here that added to the subtraction of weight as well, so I’ll fill you guys in when I get back to the office.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I’m not in front of my paperwork at this second but I can tell you that the Moroso pan as Rmchrgr said is light. Like 4 lbs lighter than the cast aluminum pan l had before. The deep steel pan l had years back was also lighter than the cast aluminum pan. I only went with the Moroso type for weight cutting, but most importantly temperature cutting reasons.

There’s other stuff here that added to the subtraction of weight as well, so I’ll fill you guys in when I get back to the office.

So here it is.
The lightest part in this picture is indeed the sheet aluminum pan as it saved 4 Lbs total from the 8 Lb finned cast aluminum monstrosity I had before. I was wrong on the make though probably because all these companies nowadays just copy each other. It is a Stef's pan and not a Moroso pan like I thought before.

My trans on the hottest days in NYC traffic gets at most 190 degrees which is just about optimum operating temperature. On cooler days and or nights, it will barely reach 160 degrees mainly in part because of plate type cooler I have up front, but also an aluminum pan and copper lines will disperse the heat better.

If you haven't taken note, it's the small things that reveal the madness.

Those 14 trans pan bolts are 2024 T aluminum which in total weighed 2.10 ounces. The steel ones weighed 5.45 ounces. 3.35 ounces shaved off.

The 20 oil pan bolts are also 2024 T aluminum and weighed 3 ounces. The steel ones weighed a whopping 8.50 ounces. 5.50 ounces shaved off.

The two bottom engine to transmission bolts are 6AL4V-T Titanium (one of them can be barely seen here) but for some reason, I can't find the numbers on those. They were thick and dorky pieces.

The four top engine to trans bolts are also kneeled titanium bolts and for the same reason, I can not find the numbers on those.

The five trans speedo cover bolts (not seen here) are Titanium and weigh only 0.60 of an ounce total. The steel ones weighed 2.00 ounces. Shaved off 1.40 ounces.

The four header collector tab bolts (seen here) and nuts are aluminum and weigh 0.35 of an ounce whereas the steel ones weighed 1.15 of an ounce. Shaved off 0.80 of an ounce.

NO! the converter bolts are high strength ARP steel.
The flex plate is steel, but I was looking at a billet aluminum one made by Trans-adapt or some company like that, but I decided to lean on caution with that kind of item.

The pan drain plug is steel only because it is a magnetic type for insurance.

Last but not least, the two safety pins holding the strap excess for the CSR carbon fiber shield are stock steel. I couldn't find them in sprung aluminum. LOL.

 

[Badvert65]

"The five trans speedo cover bolts (not seen here)"
I don't recognize where/what this refers to.
I plan to get titanium bolts for the engine-transmission connection, but I need to get measurements first.
I will look into the aluminum transmission pans, good info there as well.
I am surprised that you didn't make your own aluminum drain plug with magnet.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

"The five trans speedo cover bolts (not seen here)"
I don't recognize where/what this refers to.
I plan to get titanium bolts for the engine-transmission connection, but I need to get measurements first.
I will look into the aluminum transmission pans, good info there as well.
I am surprised that you didn't make your own aluminum drain plug with magnet.

Pardon, I meant the parking cable cover (attached below) not the speedo cover. The speedo cover has an aluminum bolt.
Wishful thinking was fetching a rare A-990 tail shaft with no provisions for a parking cable, but at the cost$ of not having a parking gear makes it Unobtaniumable.

Titanium comes in different grades and weights, the best are the military/space age stuff. The ones shown above have rolled threads.
I was guessing that aluminum with a magnetic piece could not be made or even be able to coexist with each other.

 

[rmchrgr]

Thought some of you weight loss fanatics here might enjoy this quick flick about The Farmer's 1963 Super Duty factory lightweight Catalina. As most of you probably know, Pontiac Division was right there with Chrysler employing aluminum panels to lighten their factory-sponsored super stockers but they took their program even further with a hole saw to the frame rails. Crazy to think there was some poor slob in a dimly-lit garage charged with lopping off the inner rails of a brand-new, full size frames and then sitting there drilling holes in the other half of the rails for what probably seemed like eternity. I've read that the 14 special Swiss Cheese Catalinas were in fact given to select racers. Imagine that! The hole saw guy must have been pissed about that.

If you didn't know about these cars, the video below is a quick introduction to what Brand X was fooling with around the same time as Chrysler was. It's not too in depth but I nevver knew that they cut off the inner half of the frame rail. Intersting to note these cars made it under the wire before GM backed out of racing. Chevy also had the Z-11 Impalas that guys like Grumpy Jenkins were wheeling. FoMoCo had the lightweight Galaxies too. 1964 is what really changed the game when the cars got smaller and more powerful.

Despite all the lightweight parts, these '63 cars were still pretty heavy compared to what came later. Even though they were thought of as 'mid size' cars (hardly!) they were just a few years removed from the huge-by-large space age tail finned, luxury liner days. Think about that! A '63 Savoy or 330 looks small in comparion to the Brand-X boats and those are still pretty big cars by today's standards.

The Swiss Cheese Catalinas were around 3,300 lbs race ready so think about how much a normal production models might have weighed - 4,000+ lbs? Even with a blueprinted 500 hp on tap from the dual quad 421, moving a lump like that out of the hole in a hurry was no small feat. As always, Chrysler's engineering was ahead of the curve as their recently-introduced unibodies were lighter and more rigid than their full-frame counterparts.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

As some on here may know and perhaps many do not, years back the engine and transmission were set back in the chassis about 2-1/2 inches. This required the transmission crossmember and driveshaft to be modified and adjusted to suit the setback and in doing so, it removed several pounds.
The crossmember weighed 6-1/2 lbs in stock form. When it was modified as you see it here, the trans mount nest box was made out of readily available boxed stock steel and the trans mount itself sat perfectly snugged in it. It was then cut and recessed into the crossmember and then welded in place as seen here with the steel black version.

The aluminum version y'all see here is at the half way completion mark and based on what is allegedly a ghost part from the '64 AFX 2 percent menu. Since there's one yet to be seen and verified, the itch was irresistible to fabricate one using T6061. Boxed stock aluminum was used in the same fashion as the steel version to harness the trans mount in a snug position. A few careful break forms here and there, reinforcing weld beads along with internal strengthening gussets and it took shape in short order. There was lots of measuring way before cutting and drilling once. It emerged as a real part at 3 lbs and resides underneath till this day. Shaved off 3-1/2 Lbs.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Thought some of you weight loss fanatics here might enjoy this quick flick about The Farmer's 1963 Super Duty factory lightweight Catalina. As most of you probably know, Pontiac Division was right there with Chrysler employing aluminum panels to lighten their factory-sponsored super stockers but they took their program even further with a hole saw to the frame rails. Crazy to think there was some poor slob in a dimly-lit garage charged with lopping off the inner rails of a brand-new, full size frames and then sitting there drilling holes in the other half of the rails for what probably seemed like eternity. I've read that the 14 special Swiss Cheese Catalinas were in fact given to select racers. Imagine that! The hole saw guy must have been pissed about that.

If you didn't know about these cars, the video below is a quick introduction to what Brand X was fooling with around the same time as Chrysler was. It's not too in depth but I nevver knew that they cut off the inner half of the frame rail. Intersting to note these cars made it under the wire before GM backed out of racing. Chevy also had the Z-11 Impalas that guys like Grumpy Jenkins were wheeling. FoMoCo had the lightweight Galaxies too. 1964 is what really changed the game when the cars got smaller and more powerful.

Despite all the lightweight parts, these '63 cars were still pretty heavy compared to what came later. Even though they were thought of as 'mid size' cars (hardly!) they were just a few years removed from the huge-by-large space age tail finned, luxury liner days. Think about that! A '63 Savoy or 330 looks small in comparion to the Brand-X boats and those are still pretty big cars by today's standards.

The Swiss Cheese Catalinas were around 3,300 lbs race ready so think about how much a normal production models might have weighed - 4,000+ lbs? Even with a blueprinted 500 hp on tap from the dual quad 421, moving a lump like that out of the hole in a hurry was no small feat. As always, Chrysler's engineering was ahead of the curve as their recently-introduced unibodies were lighter and more rigid than their full-frame counterparts.

Love those big Cats. It was sure a challenge to get them to be even remotely close to the Sugar Ray Leonard weight of the Mopars and Fords.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Here's the semi finished crossmember piece ready for primer and paint.

Keep in mind that the paint color for this piece was most important. Why?
Certain colors reveal imperfections clearer than others and in this case, satin chassis black was NOT to be the obvious color of choice. It would be WHITE.
White could reveal any stress cracks and or distortions much clearer than black whenever conducting under car multi point inspections.

The Trans mount is a polyurethane type.
Yes, I tried to to get the company to create a custom trans mount by throwing my provided Titanium flange (which is basically an L shape piece) into the mold, but they weren't having it.

Titanium nuts for the polyurethane mount to member studs. Stockers were 0.35 of an ounce. Ti's were 0.05. Shaved off 0.30.

Titanium bolts for the transmission tail to mount. Stock were 1/4 lb, titanium were 1/8 Lb. Shaved off 1/8 lb.

Note: the Aluminum T-6061 member to chassis long bolts and nuts on the outer holes and the T-6AL4V Titanium bolts and nuts on the inner holes.
All in total for the stockers was 1-1/2 Lbs. Titanium and aluminum combo were 1/2 Lb. They shaved a whole pound off.

 

[Badvert65]

WOW, that transmission crossmember is a thing of beauty. I need to learn how to weld aluminum.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

WOW, that transmission crossmember is a thing of beauty. I need to learn how to weld aluminum.

You and I included. I don't even know how to spell the word. LOL.
Thank you.
The guy that welds for me is a certified military grade welder and loves this whole project out of left field. Here's a bad picture of him looking like Darth Vader sealing up the A-990 fenders that tend to crack if proper care is not considered.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

There seems to be a pattern over the years with this project as far as the luck of either getting a prototype/first off the line or the very last of an assembly line run part.
As far as a driveshaft, I was in the luck of fetching the very last MMC shaft from Dynotech. As I made the order thinking these things were plentiful in their run, the gentleman informed me that they were not going to be producing anymore shafts with that material because it had become too cost prohibited. They would buy these tubes in 26 feet lengths and they had only about 8 ft left of 3" metal matrix composite material, so this was going to be the last shaft.

Before that, I had a 3" mild steel shaft and in a rare non-occurrence for me, I didn't weigh it against the new MMC shaft from Dynotech. I do know that it was lighter by a good amount, so on went a light coat of satin black and it's been there ever since.

Nowadays various manufacturers make carbon fiber shafts that are super light and hold energy much better, but super sensitive to road debris for a true street car. Any small nick from a small rock or whatever can create stress cracks and or balancing issues.

When I eventually went with a lightened Dana from Dr. Diff (more on that later) I had to shorten the MMC shaft by an inch or so and the guys over at Dynotech were happy to cut it, re-weld and rebalance it in short order.

If dismissing the yokes was implied here, not by any stretch. I tried in vain to find manufacturers of TF-727 titanium slip yokes - Sonax, Mark Williams, Strange, you name 'em..... and came up empty.
Perhaps Mopar John aka Bitter Lime can sweeten all of us up on the lightest of the lightest 1350 yokes that he has discovered within his vast stash of parts. What you say John?

 

[Cranky]

Wow, you had us worried over here Itis. Long time no see.
The quarter windows if that is what you're asking about are supported with an aluminum flat stock brace that is then sandwiched between the glass pane and screwed to the inner quarter panel lip just underneath the point of sight.
Some guys like to screw right through the lexan window using washers as a stop, but me thinks a cross braces is both more tasteful and stronger supporting. Once the interior panel is reinstalled, it all disappears.
I'll try and get some flicks in the next few days if I get a minute.

My quarter windows (stock glass) are held closed by two short lengths of .060''+ stainless wire per window. It holds them tight even in daily driving.

And not sure if I posted this pic of the K-frame and not going to go looking to see for obvious reasons lol. It's solid welded and trimmed to 32 lbs.

 

[Badvert65]

I also did some similar with the K frame on my 65 Belvedere. It went from 43 pounds (with debris inside) down to 34 pounds. I could probably cut more holes in it, but I am a little concerned about going too far.