too much oiling ??????pushrod and shaft oiling

[340duster]

anybody tried running both pushrod and shaft valve train oiling . the new cam for my hi comp (10.2-1) 383 is a lunati voodoo the supplied lifters are set up for pushrod oiling , and the new pushrods of the correct length, are on there way and they appear to be drilled for pushrod oiling as well , more oil shoould offer more cooling for the valve springs but will ther be to much volume and will overall oil pressure suffer . I am running an OEM style pump . all clearnaces have been checked and are at the tight end of the recomended specs.:headbang:

 

[Meep-Meep]

Seems to me that MoPars don't have any problems getting oil to the valve train with the factory oiling setup. To me your concern of oil demand is valid so I would go with one setup or the other. Not both. It would be interesting to test if it does require more oil flow to support both oiling systems.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I have done this with my 2nd gen hemi and a friends bb wedge.I oiled just the exhaust side and the wedge we did all.Used a comp 848 lifter.
On both engines there was a loss of 15 lbs of oil pressure.
On my hemi's last freshen up,restrictors were installed in the pushrods.Only dyno time so far,but I'll see in a few weeks if there is a difference.
It did take care of the p/r heating issue in the wedge.:blob1:

 

[Supershafts]

When you start adding new avenues for oiling you add more demand for volume and psi....
Now unless you're running constant high rpms, 6000 and over you don't need to spray the valve springs... you need to spray the valve springs to cool them either by specific valve covers or rockers

How do you expect to use the push rod to oil the springs ?

You will need a better oiling system and if you want to try and use it to cool you need to cool it by adding oil coolers and more oil.

.

 

[340duster]

thanks for the feed back

I am in a pinch , the lunati lifters that came with the voodo cam have holes in the plunger unlike the oem ones I removed . the oem pushrods are too long and end up with 0.140" lifter preload , I believe the reccomended sped is 0.020-0.060 , so , with timelines and external pressure I have found and ordered 2 sets of pushrods and the preferable size also has oil holes , which if I am correct will allow oil thru the lifter and up to the valve train. I am thinking of either running the slightly longer solid pushrods , +0.025 over the (primary choice which would put me in the 0.030 preload range) preload will end up near the max 0.055-0.060

the other option would be to plug the shorter pushrods to not allow any flow , but with what , could I braise both ends or just the bottom?? I*dont* want to use jb weld or epoxy if possible .

thanks again . great minds think alike , fools seldom differ , gear heads forever:grin:

 

[Meep-Meep]

I don't think I would braze the ends because they most likely have some hardness to them and any heating would anneal them. Is there a passage in the rocker to get oil from the tip of the push rod and pass it through the shaft pivot and out the tip over the valve? If so then restrict the factory oiling hole in the block with a big Holley jet and mostly rely on the push rod oiling to oil the valve train. Or get the exact length measurement and order a set without holes from Smith Bros in OR. You'll have them in about three days.

 

[Hemirunner]

Why not just order the correct pushrods? Smith Brothers will make anything and it will ship the same day.

 

[Supershafts]

I would have ordered the right p-rods or try a shim in the rockers if it doesn't move it off the right pattern on the stem

 

[Hemirunner]

You can't shim an RB rocker shaft. The shim will reduce the diameter of the saddle and it will crack the boss when you tighten it down. You can shim the rocker sideways on the shaft, but that's about it.

 

[Supershafts]

How would a shim which is the same area top and bottom of what it is going into reduce the saddle area....

I have never broke a rocker stand ever, i have never seen one cracked, but the only other way to fix a issue with the rocker if you have a rocker to valve issue is with a shim or machine the head for stands.

 

[67 B-body]

I would be more worried about loosing oil to ALL of the main bearings and even more on #4 cam bearing. Many performance engine builds (including my own) have restrictors placed into the rocker shaft supply circuits in the block. This is done to keep the needed oil at the #4 cam bearing and #'s 4&5 main bearings. If your using roller tip rockers this reduces the oil needed even more at the top end.

 

[67 B-body]

this is a diagram for you to follow..

 

[Hemirunner]

How would a shim which is the same area top and bottom of what it is going into reduce the saddle area....

I have never broke a rocker stand ever, i have never seen one cracked, but the only other way to fix a issue with the rocker if you have a rocker to valve issue is with a shim or machine the head for stands.

Draw a picture and you will understand it. The saddle is a half circle. If you line it with an even thickness shim, you have effectively reduced the radius of the saddle. If seen it countless times. Trust me. You can't shim one without ultimately cracking the boss.

 

[Supershafts]

If you sandwich it between the two how would you lose area, the shim will take up the contour of the stand and the shaft will form it to the contour as you tighten the nut pulling it onto the stand, effectively gaining more area at the top since the shims are slightly wider then the stands.

I have used shims though never broke a stand, unless you got some bad shim and wasn't done right and a bogus copied thing, you only have to raise the shaft

 

[340duster]

ongoing thanks to all

you guys are great , lots of good info and diagrams to boot .

I have installed the solid pushrods to negate most of my concerns , though I am at the high end of the preload spec , I am still in spec , the ideal ones have the oiling passage and will just become part of my hotrod inventory . I do appreciate all the advice .... though I do see some issue with the shimming procedure , I do know some flat type pedastals can be shimmed but I do agree that shimming a half circle can cause issues , but it likely has and will be done with out problems , but the fact of the matter is if the shim is a full half circle, then the O.D. of the shaft is effectively bigger by that amount (0.001 -0.003 or more depending on the shim) think of wrapping shim stock all the way around any shaft , the o.d will grow by twice the shim thickness , unless the shims are tapered to be thick at the bottom and next to nothing on the sides (that would be a pretty specific shim) so depending on pedastal tolerences and shim thickness ,the shim would become a wedge (think big- could you force a 1 1/4 inch pipe into a 1inch saddle) and could lead to failure .
but there are many things that are not supposed to work but hotrodders make it work .....:eusa_think:

 

[snakeoil24]

order a set of push rods from Smith brothers. you can not braze the push rods ends. Nor can you use epoxy it will crack and break out.

 

[Sixer]

It's my understanding the best rocker oiling comes from a 6 thou groove in the #4 camshaft journal and a high volume pump. Gives constant volume to the rocker passages and the high volume pump keeps everyone happy. Pressure drop using this method is supposed to be minimal.

 

[67 B-body]

It's my understanding the best rocker oiling comes from a 6 thou groove in the #4 camshaft journal and a high volume pump. Gives constant volume to the rocker passages and the high volume pump keeps everyone happy. Pressure drop using this method is supposed to be minimal.

I used the 3/4 groove bearing and HV pump.