Torsion bar advice

[subforry]

I'm rebuilding the front suspension on my '66 Charger. The car seems to slam into the road on dips and such. I expected the KYB gas adjust shocks to be bad, but they are ok.

So does that leaves me with worn out torsion bars?

I think they are original, I haven't removed them yet. The car was a 361, AC, power steering. The build sheet lists left as 777 and right as 776.

Now the car has a 440 with aluminum intake and water pump, the rest is cast iron. Currently no AC compressor but I plan to add a modern one.

Do I need new torsion bars? Where to buy? Spring rate recommendations?

Thanks.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

I haven't installed them yet, but I bought a pair of PST 1.03" diameter torsion bars. Besides those, there are some 1.10" Hotchkis bars and factory bars (that I am aware of)

 

[Don Frelier]

I haven't installed them yet, but I bought a pair of PST 1.03" diameter torsion bars. Besides those, there are some 1.10" Hotchkis bars and factory bars (that I am aware of)

I just installed the PST 1.03" bars over the summer.
They work great in my 66 Charger with a 383.
If its original I would recommend changing all the bushings:
Upper control arm
Lower control arm (yes the tough one)
Strut rods
sway bar links and k-member bushings

The 10" drums are marginal at best with a 440.

 

[subforry]

If its original I would recommend changing all the bushings:
Upper control arm
Lower control arm (yes the tough one)
Strut rods
sway bar links and k-member bushings

The 10" drums are marginal at best with a 440.

Got all this, except the k-member bushings. I will have to look into them.

 

[AR67GTX]

I have the 1.03 PST bars in my 66 Hemi and they ride great.

 

[ckessel]

There are quite a few possibilities of bar/spring to choose from. What direction do you want to go with? Cruiser, handling, drags? This book may be of assistance in your quest.
mopar-b-body-performance-upgrades-1962-1979

 

[Sam69sat]

I'm rebuilding the front suspension on my '66 Charger. The car seems to slam into the road on dips and such. I expected the KYB gas adjust shocks to be bad, but they are ok.

So does that leaves me with worn out torsion bars?

I think they are original, I haven't removed them yet. The car was a 361, AC, power steering. The build sheet lists left as 777 and right as 776.

Now the car has a 440 with aluminum intake and water pump, the rest is cast iron. Currently no AC compressor but I plan to add a modern one.

Do I need new torsion bars? Where to buy? Spring rate recommendations?

Thanks.

View attachment 1560521

Car looks awesome with that paint and vector wheels.

 

[Kern Dog]

KYB "gas-a-just" shocks are inferior to Bilstein, Monroe, even Harbor Freight junk.
The only time a KYB shock is remotely adequate is when the car is mostly stock and the torsion bars are too. The KYBs are a digressive design, which means that the movement of the shock is initially harsh but they soften up during longer travel of the suspension.....exactly opposite of the good shocks.
A quality shock is progressive, where they absorb small movements but tighten up toward the end of the travel. Imagine marrying a woman that puts out when you first meet but refuses you the longer you know her. She is the KYB shock absorber of women.
Sure, they are CHEAP but are they worth it?
No, they are not.
The stock "spring rates" for our cars are different compared to what many of us prefer these days. Many classic Mopars had softer front rates than ideal with harsher rear rates. Years back, a company in Canada known as XV Motorsports did chassis testing on some classic Mopars and found that for a more modern feel, the cars needed more spring rate in the front ( larger torsion bars) and the rear could be left alone or actually softened up a little.
Even a 318 spec .88 torsion bar is woefully soft for a bare bones 318 car.
As previously suggested, the 1.03 bars are available and are a popular upgrade. There is a reason why that size is mentioned frequently, it is a good improvement over the skinny stock sizes.
I run a large set in my car, I bought mine from the FABO and FBBO site sponsor Bergman Auto Craft. He had surplus bars from XV Motorsports when they went out of business. When you pair the bigger torsion bars with good shocks, the car will ride better and handle quite well. You do have to do both though....simply switching to better shocks with stock torsion bars OR bigger torsion bars with KYBs is a mismatch that will not result in a good combination.
Good luck, Greg.

 

[Cranky]

What KYB's do you have? Shocks control the springs and one of the jobs of the springs is to hold the car up. I stepped up to Bilstein shocks on my diesel 2500 and man, what a difference....it was like night and day!! What did you do to figure your shocks were still good and how old are they??

 

[Sam69sat]

 

[subforry]

The shocks are KYB-gas-adjust, white, not sure on the part number. The way the car rode, I really expected them to be blown out. But the one I removed, expand and seemed to work.

I am in agreement about KYB vrs Bilstein. On the old Mercedes there is no comparison, the Bilstein handles so much better.

The car is a cruiser, not much else planned. It's real dog in terms of handling, the worse car I have. That is why I am doing all this work.

Thanks for all the input. I'm feeling good about the PTS bars and plan to get some. What are the Bilstein part numbers?

 

[Kern Dog]

Contact Firm Feel and ask about the Bilstein RCD models. They are configured to fit the classic Mopars.

 

[Cranky]

The shocks are KYB-gas-adjust, white, not sure on the part number. The way the car rode, I really expected them to be blown out. But the one I removed, expand and seemed to work.

I am in agreement about KYB vrs Bilstein. On the old Mercedes there is no comparison, the Bilstein handles so much better.

The car is a cruiser, not much else planned. It's real dog in terms of handling, the worse car I have. That is why I am doing all this work.

Thanks for all the input. I'm feeling good about the PTS bars and plan to get some. What are the Bilstein part numbers?

I've always went to a much better shock before changing springs. Even with pretty old springs, a much better shock worked really well.

 

[Sixpactogo]

If your torsion bars are not broken, they are more than likely not the issue. It is the shocks, lower and upper bushings along with sway bar bushings causing your noise. Like Kern said, get some Bilstein shocks and new bushings installed along with a fresh wheel alignment.

 

[scipione2007]

I'm rebuilding the front suspension on my '66 Charger. The car seems to slam into the road on dips and such. I expected the KYB gas adjust shocks to be bad, but they are ok.

So does that leaves me with worn out torsion bars?

I think they are original, I haven't removed them yet. The car was a 361, AC, power steering. The build sheet lists left as 777 and right as 776.

Now the car has a 440 with aluminum intake and water pump, the rest is cast iron. Currently no AC compressor but I plan to add a modern one.

Do I need new torsion bars? Where to buy? Spring rate recommendations?

Thanks.

View attachment 1560521

how did you make out? i have a 68 charger 383, the front of the car droops its too low. the torsion bars a re stock. If i install the 1.100" do you think it will help with my ride height? i screwed the adjuster screws in all the way and it still rides too low. Last thing. the greese fittings on the idler arm & pitman are hitting my torsion bars what do i do for that?

 

[Kern Dog]

Got all this, except the k-member bushings. I will have to look into them.

The 1962-72 B body cars use NO K member bushings between the frame and K member. They do use them where the strut rod connects at the front.

how did you make out? i have a 68 charger 383, the front of the car droops its too low. the torsion bars a re stock. If i install the 1.100" do you think it will help with my ride height? i screwed the adjuster screws in all the way and it still rides too low. Last thing. the greese fittings on the idler arm & pitman are hitting my torsion bars what do i do for that?

Torsion bars do wear out. Yours may be beyond their life cycle.
Making the leap from the stock .88 bars all the way to those Bergman 1.14s is a HUGE change that you may not like. The popular 1.03" size is a nice upgrade that will work quite well when paired with a decent shock.

Kanter and PST are merged at this point.
The Bergman 1.14" bars may be excellent but they are more aimed toward the more serious enthusiast.

Yeah, the price surprised me too.

 

[jimbosride]

KYB "gas-a-just" shocks are inferior to Bilstein, Monroe, even Harbor Freight junk.
The only time a KYB shock is remotely adequate is when the car is mostly stock and the torsion bars are too. The KYBs are a digressive design, which means that the movement of the shock is initially harsh but they soften up during longer travel of the suspension.....exactly opposite of the good shocks.
A quality shock is progressive, where they absorb small movements but tighten up toward the end of the travel. Imagine marrying a woman that puts out when you first meet but refuses you the longer you know her. She is the KYB shock absorber of women.
Sure, they are CHEAP but are they worth it?
No, they are not.
The stock "spring rates" for our cars are different compared to what many of us prefer these days. Many classic Mopars had softer front rates than ideal with harsher rear rates. Years back, a company in Canada known as XV Motorsports did chassis testing on some classic Mopars and found that for a more modern feel, the cars needed more spring rate in the front ( larger torsion bars) and the rear could be left alone or actually softened up a little.
Even a 318 spec .88 torsion bar is woefully soft for a bare bones 318 car.
As previously suggested, the 1.03 bars are available and are a popular upgrade. There is a reason why that size is mentioned frequently, it is a good improvement over the skinny stock sizes.
I run a large set in my car, I bought mine from the FABO and FBBO site sponsor Bergman Auto Craft. He had surplus bars from XV Motorsports when they went out of business. When you pair the bigger torsion bars with good shocks, the car will ride better and handle quite well. You do have to do both though....simply switching to better shocks with stock torsion bars OR bigger torsion bars with KYBs is a mismatch that will not result in a good combination.
Good luck, Greg.

What front shocks would you recommend for my 65?. All new front end with disc brakes and rebuilt power steering box. 1.03 bars. It rides good, but I think it's not stiff enough. it tends to nose dive. The shocks that are on it are junk stock replacements. BB car.

 

[subforry]

how did you make out? i have a 68 charger 383, the front of the car droops its too low. the torsion bars a re stock. If i install the 1.100" do you think it will help with my ride height? i screwed the adjuster screws in all the way and it still rides too low. Last thing. the greese fittings on the idler arm & pitman are hitting my torsion bars what do i do for that?

I got the 1.03 and Bilstien shocks. I am quite happy with them. Later I did order new adjusters because I felt it was dropping. I don't think that was the case, more that I needed to put more pre-load on the driver's side.

 

[Kern Dog]

What front shocks would you recommend for my 65?. All new front end with disc brakes and rebuilt power steering box. 1.03 bars. It rides good, but I think it's not stiff enough. it tends to nose dive. The shocks that are on it are junk stock replacements. BB car.

In my opinion, rapid dive can be slowed a bit by a better shock but more of the fault lies with the torsion bar itself.
Here is what I learned....
In 2014 I had 1.0 torsion bars and KYB shocks in my red car. I changed to 1.15" torsion bars and Bilstein shocks at the same time. The ride was actually better with the second combination.

I don't have a part number for the Bilstein shocks. I called Firm Feel and ordered them from those guys. They are known as Bilstein RCD. (Race Car Dynamics)

 

[subforry]

Heads up: as you would expect the stiffer torsion bars are a larger diameter and could rub against exhaust down pipes or other junk.