Torsion bar suggestion

[Cranky]

Have you guys ever driven a B-body with 6 cylinder .86 torsion bars? They make the car loose goosy. Way different than a 318 car. It would be a big improvement with the .90 bars.

And the convertible just adds more weight to the equation.

Did you read my post about having a 66 Belvedere with /6 and factory air? I bet there's more weight on mine on front than the rag top. Never swapped the bars but installed good shocks and lowered the car and dialed in more camber. Handled MUCH better. Soft shocks is the problem with much of that loose goosy crap. First thing I always do to a new acquisition is get rid of the sponges on it and put on firm shocks. My wife's 73 318 Challenger rode like a wet sponge because it came with soft shocks but that's the way she wanted it to be so I left the sponges on it. And that rag top isn't much heavier than a hardtop if it is at all. That part I don't know....but I do know that it's much easier to swap out for good shocks first and if you still don't like the ride, then go for bigger bars. Spongy shocks will only be worse with bigger bars anyways. If sponges ain't controlling the /6 bars, they sure as heck ain't going to control the bigger springs either.

 

[Cranky]

Having stiffer springs is a common route that people use when looking for handling improvements. It doesn't always work. They're great for smooth tracks and roads though. However, softer springs can do a better job of keeping the tires on the road if you're on a bumpy, irregular surface. Some tuners use this knowledge and even dial in softer spring rates than the factory used, but counter it with extra stiff anti-sway bars and better shocks - getting the benefit of flat cornering without the rough ride.

THANK YOU!! Finally someone gets it!! lol

 

[super-bee_ski]

Heck, I lowered mine to where the lower control arm bump stops were within 1" or so of the stop brackets.....

Yup, I know Cranky...
But he is desiring a "Stiffer" ride I think....

 

[DereII]

I bought my '67 Belvedere II 318 car figuring to upgrade the suspension at some point and picked up a set of .960 bars. Wound up going to the drags with a 440 up front, and left the 318 bars in the car while swapping SuperStock springs into the rear. New shocks all around no doubt help, but the car really does drive nice enough on the road having just the stiffer springs in the back. A bit like a truck over some surfaces, so it's probably best that I never took the heavy T-bars out of the box as that might have made something suitable, as indicated here, only for smooth roads or a road course. My car showed under 50k on the odometer, I wouldn't be surprised if it was on its first trip around that dial from having some older mechanics look over the condition of the interior, in particular the pedals where they claimed higher mileage would reveal itself, and passable if not good condition bushings might be helping here as well.

 

[R413]

Did you read my post about having a 66 Belvedere with /6 and factory air? I bet there's more weight on mine on front than the rag top. Never swapped the bars but installed good shocks and lowered the car and dialed in more camber. Handled MUCH better. Soft shocks is the problem with much of that loose goosy crap. First thing I always do to a new acquisition is get rid of the sponges on it and put on firm shocks. My wife's 73 318 Challenger rode like a wet sponge because it came with soft shocks but that's the way she wanted it to be so I left the sponges on it. And that rag top isn't much heavier than a hardtop if it is at all. That part I don't know....but I do know that it's much easier to swap out for good shocks first and if you still don't like the ride, then go for bigger bars. Spongy shocks will only be worse with bigger bars anyways. If sponges ain't controlling the /6 bars, they sure as heck ain't going to control the bigger springs either.

Yes I read your post. Glad you got it working good. Most people don’t want a lower ride height and more camber, then the tires are going to wear. And if it’s lowered with wimpy springs is it going around a corner on the Bump stop? No wonder it handles good.

Yes convertibles are absolutely heavier than hardtops.
I know he will benefit with bigger bars, slant bars are wet noodles. And 383 bars are not overly stiff like those 1.03 bars are.

 

[Cranky]

Yes I read your post. Glad you got it working good. Most people don’t want a lower ride height and more camber, then the tires are going to wear. And if it’s lowered with wimpy springs is it going around a corner on the Bump stop? No wonder it handles good.

Yes convertibles are absolutely heavier than hardtops.
I know he will benefit with bigger bars, slant bars are wet noodles. And 383 bars are not overly stiff like those 1.03 bars are.

Nope, it wasn't on the bump stops during turns and my front tires did not wear out too fast..... and you can tell everybody how I knew that and why my front tires didn't wear fast since you seem to know front end suspension so well.....

 

[F4R/T]

Cranky do you recall how much camber you dialed in? Or if you could post your alignment numbers for a reference guide shall I say. I have my 72 about an 1” off the bumps stops too and like it..

 

[Cranky]

Cranky do you recall how much camber you dialed in? Or if you could post your alignment numbers for a reference guide shall I say. I have my 72 about an 1” off the bumps stops too and like it..

Naw....strings and levels is how I did it......and after taking it to an alignment shop to check my work, the tech said everything looked good except for my toe in wasn't right? "Ok, go ahead and set it" I said. I threw away 20 bucks on that one because he set it to 1" toe instead of 1/8"!! He did say the camber wasn't within factory specs but it would work well for cornering lol Toe is about the easiest thing to set so don't know what he did or was thinking and he was supposed to be one of the few left around here that knew Mopar front ends. If you've never driven a car with 1" toe in, you're in for a treat and not a good one! I had always meant to buy a camber/caster gauge but never did and you could actually see the camber standing in line with the front and rear wheels from about a car length away. It almost looked like the cop cars of the late 70's! When I first noticed the camber on them I thought there was front end problem but all the cops cars were like that. And making turn plates from 1/8" plate is pretty easy and used grease between them. Pretty easy to push the car up on them with the top plate being a bit smaller than the bottom but probably wouldn't matter if all 4 plates were the same. And the new alignment settings were easily noticed in the way the car acted....and was in love with it! It was really surprising in how nice it was and it didn't even has sway bars on it!

 

[AR67GTX]

I do have a toe tram gage and a couple of caster/camber gages so I guess that qualifies me as a semi-shade tree mechanic for home alignments.

I once bought a new Ford Lightning PU and it followed ever irregularity in the road to an alarming degree. I slapped my gage on the tires and it was pretty clearly out in camber and without going further I decided that was reason enough to return to the dealer. I rolled into the service dept and explained how the truck was all over the road and I had checked camber with my own gage and found at least that was out of spec. Talk about getting an amused look - the tech was like, sure you did. Was that by eyeball or a 3’ level. But since it was brand new they decided to humor me and run it through for a check while I waited. I watched them kind of talking amongst themselves and glancing at me in the waiting room - or maybe that was my imagination. Anyway, after about an hour he sheepishly returned and said - well, in fact it was out of spec like you said. Matter of fact, it was out so far we had to install a camber kit in order to get it in spec. Made my day.

Owned the truck for 17 years and with those wide tires it wandered all of the road during all of them.

 

[Cranky]

I do have a toe tram gage and a couple of caster/camber gages so I guess that qualifies me as a semi-shade tree mechanic for home alignments.

I once bought a new Ford Lightning PU and it followed ever irregularity in the road to an alarming degree. I slapped my gage on the tires and it was pretty clearly out in camber and without going further I decided that was reason enough to return to the dealer. I rolled into the service dept and explained how the truck was all over the road and I had checked camber with my own gage and found at least that was out of spec. Talk about getting an amused look - the tech was like, sure you did. Was that by eyeball or a 3’ level. But since it was brand new they decided to humor me and run it through for a check while I waited. I watched them kind of talking amongst themselves and glancing at me in the waiting room - or maybe that was my imagination. Anyway, after about an hour he sheepishly returned and said - well, in fact it was out of spec like you said. Matter of fact, it was out so far we had to install a camber kit in order to get it in spec. Made my day.

Owned the truck for 17 years and with those wide tires it wandered all of the road during all of them.

Been down that path more than once but every now and then, a tech will listen to ya (the service writers won't) and they can determine fairly fast if you know what you're talking about. Had one guy laugh at me when I told him my tires were out of balance (fronts) and actually bouncing at 75 and told me that the speed limit was 55 (back in the day of mandatory fed forced limit). Came right back at him and said if they are bouncing at 75 but not at 55, it still means they are not balanced right and that I don't drive 55 anyways, and if you can't do the job right, I want my money back and I'll go somewhere else. He did the job right and even called to let him know that they were smooth at 85 even lol and thanked him.

 

[F4R/T]

Scary thing is a dam good alignment guy is getting really hard to find. Kids now see it’s in the green on the screen and let it go, not willing to optimize everything to make it drive good , especially when most guys are willing to pay for the extra time to set it up right not just the flat rate fee.

 

[AR67GTX]

Your very right. First alignment guy my friend with a 69 Roadrunner went to charged him a huge amount of money and claimed he had to replace some stripped camber bolts (which I question as I installed them). And the alignment was a crap job. I gave him a place I have used that has a bunch of car enthusiast working there and they did it right and a lot cheaper.

 

[PST]

@PST can give you all the info needed.

The 1.03 bars that we offer will would give you what I would consider a firm ride but not stiff. I have installed them on few B Bodies that I have done over the years and it would give a more modern ride and feel to the car. The biggest dictator of ride comfort is shocks. So if that is your biggest concern look at purchasing a set of good quality shocks like the Bilstiens with the digressive valving. Also as a member of this forum you are eligible for the member discount and free shipping with in the US 48 States. If you have an questions on our products please PM me and I will help you.

Thanks
James From
PST

 

[OCTAVIOUS]

He is my follow up. I installed 4 new KYB shocks, the ones that came off the rears were Mopar Auto Cushions and completely shot. The fronts were Gabriel maybe…but older. I also installed the .90 bars. Not a hard job at all.

The front now has some support but not stiff. The rear is better but the those six cylinder leafs are soft but no bounce.
All and All I like the feel and it went in the right Direction for sure.