Tremec 5 speed conversion in a 1970 Charger

[Kern Dog]

103 miles on it. The shift feel is still great though a bit tighter than any other manual trans that I have driven. I've only stalled it once and the Wife was in the car to see that. Driving on the freeway at 80 doing 2200-2300 rpms is great!
I weighed the car this morning. I didn't have the spare tire in the trunk so I'd need to weigh one and add that number to the total.
About 20 years ago, I weighed the car with the original 318-904-8.25 axle but with the Dart front disc brakes. 2 gallons of gas in it and it weighed 3660. A year later with the 440-727-8.75 and I was at 3751, again with 2 gallons of gas. The 440 swap gained only 89 lbs partly because I removed all the underhood A/C stuff.
A couple of years ago before changing the HVAC system, I weighed 3940. This is with frame connectors, torque boxes, bigger torsion bars, front and rear sway bars, extensive sound deadener, the 18" wheels and tires BUT with lighter front seats and lighter rear disc brakes. THIS time I had a full tank.
After the Classic Auto Air project, I was at an even 4000 lbs. This surprised me because the original under dash unit is double the size and weigh as the aftermarket unit and I switched to an aluminum water pump housing. It surprised me to see that I gained 60 lbs despite losing weight elsewhere.

Todays weight with the full tank but NO spare: 3980. What does a spare tire weigh? 40-50 lbs? I guess I'll weigh one and report back.
I thought that this swap could have resulted in a weight reduction until I started looking at the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. The transmission itself weighs less than the 727. The drive shaft is 5 lbs heavier. This new carpet is heavier.
The 3660 and 3751 numbers are a bit deceptive. To compare to today's numbers, I have to add 17 gallons worth of gasoline weight. Gas weighs approx 6 lbs per gallon so I add 102 lbs to the totals.
3660= 3762
3751=3853.
When I went and learned the 3940 number in early 2018, I was surprised to see that it was so heavy. The difference in gasoline weight makes a big difference.

 

[66 Sat]

What is the actual driving experience like compared to the auto? Does the car feel faster, slower, more thrilling to drive, more effort to drive etc? I realize you're probably just getting adjusted to it and not hammering it along, but what are your early thoughts?

 

[Kern Dog]

What is the actual driving experience like compared to the auto? Does the car feel faster, slower, more thrilling to drive, more effort to drive etc? I realize you're probably just getting adjusted to it and not hammering it along, but what are your early thoughts?

I don't know if it is faster but so far, it is certainly more fun.
Yeah, a manual trans means that you have to pay more attention. You have to remember to take it out of gear when slowing to a stoplight or a sign. You have to be ready when the light turns green, Driving through neighborhoods with speed bumps means more work. It is hard to eat a hot dog and drink a soda when the need to shift is there. I was telling the Wife about a few things that a driver needs to do and know when driving a stick shift. She says that she wished that she had driven this car some with the automatic so it isn't all so overwhelming.
I am not driving it hard but I am not just cruising either. Oddly, I am enjoying how much more comfortable the car is to drive fast. I haven't driven a manual trans car day after day, ever. I had a 76 Camaro with a 4 speed and got pretty good with it but I sold that car 20 years ago. I had a 4 speed Duster but sold it in 2011. I didn't drive that car much in the time that I owned it.
The car does feel so different, it is like a different car. Truth.

 

[watermelon]

agreed Kern. the TKO just took the driving experience to new heights. you’re gonna to have fun passing all those Prius’ and others on the freeway.

each cruise i do now gets farther and farther. fast or slow the TKO has just made it a blast.


watermelon

 

[ckessel]

As you and Mrs will find out or remember, you can't multi-task when driving a stick very often. For me with my 4 ton beast, its only when there is a decent to large open area when on the road. For sure out of the question in traffic.

 

[NJRR]

What is the actual driving experience like compared to the auto? Does the car feel faster, slower, more thrilling to drive, more effort to drive etc? I realize you're probably just getting adjusted to it and not hammering it along, but what are your early thoughts?

To get another perspective, I converted my 70 RR from auto to 4 speed. I used a stock 833 trans, 3.23 open rear with a 383 and an air grabber. The car was fun as an automatic. With the 4 speed, it was a totally different car. I was able to push the engine higher into the torque curve and really feel the power and get pushed back in the seats. It was definitely faster off the line !!! Plus, the pistol grip shifter is just so bad *** !!!!!!!

 

[66 Sat]

Well, after convincing myself to stay with the auto I'm now back on the stick shift plan.
I've just printed the quote I got from Brewer's in June last year for the 4 spd conversion. Looking at the quote I think I could drop a few items to save money e.g. the $600 for the 4 spd console top plate, and then modify the existing console as you have done.

The big question is do I go 4 spd or 5 spd Tremec?

Commonsense would say if you going to the effort of doing the swap you would put a 5 spd in, but maybe the 4 spd would be an easier conversion as it's all factory? I'd be doing the work myself and calling on help where needed e.g. welding, so the easier the better.
Any thoughts?

 

[Kern Dog]

The 5 speed swap did have a few additional steps but the cruising speed rpms are SO much better. Seriously, a .64 overdrive is 36% less rpms at speed. That is a gigantic difference. It alone made the swap worthwhile because it dramatically lowers the tension you feel after driving at freeway speeds. I love this car but I always paid a price for the long drives. It was like you feel after leaving a huge sporting event or a rock concert where you are totally immersed in noise and energy for hours. Getting out was sometimes a BIG relief.
The floor had to be cut and the patch was not difficult, but that was with the TKO series. The new TKX is slightly smaller and rounder on top so the tunnel may clear with the new Tremec OR the cutting may be a bit smaller in scale.
Aside from the tunnel cut and patch, there was the hydraulic throwout bearing setup. This was my first time and it worked out fine for me.
The Tremec has shorter throws than a 4 speed and makes less noise.

 

[NJRR]

Well, after convincing myself to stay with the auto I'm now back on the stick shift plan.
I've just printed the quote I got from Brewer's in June last year for the 4 spd conversion. Looking at the quote I think I could drop a few items to save money e.g. the $600 for the 4 spd console top plate, and then modify the existing console as you have done.

The big question is do I go 4 spd or 5 spd Tremec?

Commonsense would say if you going to the effort of doing the swap you would put a 5 spd in, but maybe the 4 spd would be an easier conversion as it's all factory? I'd be doing the work myself and calling on help where needed e.g. welding, so the easier the better.
Any thoughts?

I think a lot depends on your skill level and what equipment/tools you have. Do you have a lift? Also I sourced parts for about a year and figured I saved about $1000. It took time but I was in no hurry and I learned a lot about the components. Also, I sold off my automatic parts and recouped some of the cost of the 4 speed parts.

 

[66 Sat]

I think a lot depends on your skill level and what equipment/tools you have. Do you have a lift? Also I sourced parts for about a year and figured I saved about $1000. It took time but I was in no hurry and I learned a lot about the components. Also, I sold off my automatic parts and recouped some of the cost of the 4 speed parts.

I think I'll be able to do it, but I don't have a lift so will be working with the car on stands which is a pain. I need to order the whole lot in one go as overseas shipping is a killer and I don't want the car off the road for too long either waiting for parts. It will be a big job for sure, but no more than anything else I've done with the car to date, and although I always want to do the works myself I'm never too proud to ask for help, or to trailer the car to someone to finish it off if I get stuck.

 

[CoronetDarter]

Unless your car is rare or a valuable numbers matching, I'd vote for the 5 spd. My Dart with the Tremec has over 100 hp less than the Coronet but I much prefer it on long drives because of the extra gear. Buzzing along the freeway at 3,500+ rpm gets unnerving after a while.

 

[watermelon]

5 speed for sure

and i purposely did my 727-to-tko swap on jack stands just for fun.



watermelon

 

[Kern Dog]

Fibber.

 

[moparedtn]

Mine is my name:
Gregory Kern.

Ye shall be added to THE LIST!!

Wait...was that you in the video??

 

[Kern Dog]

No, that was a friend that was selling the car. He wanted a video to help promote the car.

 

[moparedtn]

5 speed for sure

and i purposely did my 727-to-tko swap on jack stands just for fun.



watermelon

Ones' definition of "fun" apparently changes with age....

 

[moparedtn]

No, that was a friend that was selling the car. He wanted a video to help promote the car.

Good. I was gonna fuss at you about abusing the thing....

 

[joe smith]

My understanding is the Tremec TKO will be phased out as soon as TKX manufacturing is ramped up.. I have been following some chevy and ford builds with the TKX. Delivery of the Ford version was pushed out till the end of March, but some Chevy guys have been getting there transmissions..

The TKX internals are based more on the T56 six speed Tremec.. I have seen Mopar versions of it advertised at the various drivetrain places saying "no cutting" necessary..... The TKX is bolt in on the 70 camaros and Fox body mustangs I have been following...

 

[HawkRod]

The big question is do I go 4 spd or 5 spd Tremec?

Commonsense would say if you going to the effort of doing the swap you would put a 5 spd in, but maybe the 4 spd would be an easier conversion as it's all factory? I'd be doing the work myself and calling on help where needed e.g. welding, so the easier the better.
Any thoughts?

I drove my 70 Road Runner across country in a 833 overdrive. Basically, 3rd gear is converted to overdrive, so third and fourth are swapped (fourth remains 1:1).
While it did very well on the highway, I felt the fewer gears reduced performance. I now have a Passon A-855 5 speed and it is so much better! So having driven both I vote for a 5 speed.

 

[440+6]

I have now the passon 4 speed overdrive, wish it was more than .80 overdrive but I have to admit it is nice on the highway and first gear is actually nice as opposed to being way to low for me