We Finally Got Our Red Light Cameras!

[YY1]

Whether or not I can easily, in most circumstances, stop well before the line may not be the issue.

if the municipality can use multiple technicalities in order to give me a ticket, where the main purpose of that ticket is revenue generation, then why is it not OK for me to use technicalities to defend myself from that practice?

In my opinion, it would be much better if both parties could just "do the right thing", and persue the flagrant and clear violations, involving vehicles that clearly enter the intersection, without worrying about whether or not I stopped before, on, or slightly after "the line".


In this case it seems pretty clear that either the intent to ticket on technicalities was there since inception, or, since the cameras went up, there has been a case of manufactured evidence of wrongdoing, in the name of revenue, where either none existed, or the existance was questionable, before hand.

I get tired of the "if you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't mind the camera" argument.

Let's put one up facing every house, so that others may determine if any wrongdoing is going on, and if so, to what extent.

Those may not be initally profitable, but I'm sure something can be found, eventually.

...and it was the republican municipal government in our area that installed the cameras.

How come any time the "liberals" get the finger pointed at them, it's OK, but whenever I mention the conservatives, the post gets yanked?

I'm an equal opportunity authority questioner

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...and how about those "snapshot" OBD II interfaces that insurance companies have?

NO THANK YOU.

How long before those are mandatory?

 

[pabster]

Well....I see Pabster is still at it again along with a few others here. It never ceases to amaze me that regardless of topic forums, there is an interjection of wanting the Federal Government to set up this or to do that. They obviously have a very difficult time making sound judgements and decisions without the Damn Feds telling us what we can and cannot or should do. Just "FREAKING" unbelievable what comes out of the mouths of these "CLOWNS". It would be nice if the "SHEEPLE" would start thinking for themselves. I'm becoming of the opinion that that is too much to ask. I know we can debate that driving is a "Privilege" and not a "RIGHT" yet some here would say otherwise. If one wants to really become proficient at driving a motor car then pony up the bucks and take an expanded driving course.

So you're saying I'm a "clown" and a "sheep" because... I want people to be more educated in how to drive before they get a license? Your plan is... what? Bad drivers will eventually "pony up" the cash for a driving course, but if they don't, then what? Let me guess. This is another argument of "there should be no regulation or laws, I should be able to drive whatever I want however I want!" If that's your argument, buy a plane ticket and fly to Africa. Rent a car. Go for a nice long road trip. See what the roads are like filled with people who have no idea what they're doing, with no law enforcement to stop them. Good luck with that.

You want more surveillance of citizens set up by the government, and if I want education and not cameras I'm a "Sheep"?

If you're going to get up on a soapbox and bash other people's opinions, at least make some sense.

 

[cr8crshr]

So you're saying I'm a "clown" and a "sheep" because... I want people to be more educated in how to drive before they get a license? Your plan is... what? Bad drivers will eventually "pony up" the cash for a driving course, but if they don't, then what? Let me guess. This is another argument of "there should be no regulation or laws, I should be able to drive whatever I want however I want!" If that's your argument, buy a plane ticket and fly to Africa. Rent a car. Go for a nice long road trip. See what the roads are like filled with people who have no idea what they're doing, with no law enforcement to stop them. Good luck with that.


You want more surveillance of citizens set up by the government, and if I want education and not cameras I'm a "Sheep"?

If you're going to get up on a soapbox and bash other people's opinions, at least make some sense.

Pabster...What I am saying is that you constantly invoke the premise that the Federal Gov't is the answer and has all the solutions to every single issue and problem that there is. If you really think that a mandated Fed Requirement is the only solution, then where are we as individuals. It is called "Common Sense" and doing what is Right. If the masses would instead look to them selves rather than the Gov't to correct things then we wouldn't have this need for all these Federal Rules and Regulations. Yet you continue to espouse that that is the solution. And stop attempting to put words into others mouths. I made no mention of surveillance. At least as I re-read what I first said I didn't see that. Finally...Yes you are a "Clown" and a follower of the PC Sheeple as far as I am concerned. And I dare say that quite a few here will agree with me on that. You continually never have anything of forethought to say and quite frankly it makes for a really trying and devoid rhetoric. I believe it's called "Sheer Profundity....

 

[YY1]

I really appreciate being able to discuss and debate issues with reasonably intelligent people, even if our opinions and viewpoints differ wildly...besides, I can't physically reach any of you (or you- me, whichever serves my immediate interest)

My bottom line- the people were sold a safety enhancement device, and were delivered a municipal revenue generation device.

The effect of the safety aspect has been marginal, and the legality of the revenue generation aspect is now in question.

I rest my case.

 

[cr8crshr]

I really appreciate being able to discuss and debate issues with reasonably intelligent people, even if our opinions and viewpoints differ wildly...besides, I can't physically reach any of you (or you- me, whichever serves my immediate interest)

My bottom line- the people were sold a safety enhancement device, and were delivered a municipal revenue generation device.

The effect of the safety aspect has been marginal, and the legality of the revenue generation aspect is now in question.

I rest my case.

Thanks...I could not have said it better...Tuck

 

[Budnicks]

Thanks...I could not have said it better...Tuck

X2

 

[Flys-Lo]

It may have been mentioned here before - if so I missed it but...

In my state when the cameras went up the duration of the yellow light was shortened. Many lawsuits ensued (no pun intended) and the state had to refund a-lottaaaaaa munny. I'm all for safer roads, I have a wife and children I want to keep safe, and nice cars I want to keep nice. But I hate government intrusion and especially dislike the ba$tards who would shorten a yellow light to make money - AT THE EXPENSE of safety.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/red_light_cams_red_light_cam_0NJ954EGA2bSvVQcalErXJ

 

[WileE]

In my experience, red light cameras installed at intersections lead to a marked increase in motor vehicle accidents that we responded to at the same intersection than before they were installed...mostly rear end accident from drivers locking up the brakes on yellow light because they know the camera is there. They are a good investment for municipalities to grab more money from citizens. Safety is not their concern because the statistics back up what i see on a weekly basis firsthand. In fact in NJ, some municipalities shortened their yellow lights in a blatant attempt to further increase revenue....

Agree 100%.

 

[ChargerRTguy]

I think George Orewell was right with "1984".....too much big brother. Red light cams, drones, more gun control laws........we are losing our freedoms and liberties slowly by the day...............Next will be our beloved MOPARS with too much carbon footprint, and they will make them illegal too..............

 

[306Doba]

They installed them where i'm from at intersections with high collisions rates. Serious accidents took a huge fall at every intersection but minor rear end collisions went up (better to have minor fender benders than people going to the hospital). Also you only get pegged if you enter the intersection after the light has gone red so I don't see the issue with them. People seem to think if you go through on a yellow they will get you but that's not the case, even if the light turns red while you're in the intersection you won't get a ticket (at least in my home town) If people didn't suck at driving we wouldn't need big brother watching ;)

 

[snakeoil24]

The cameras are completely wrong. The idea of municipalties collectioning
money with no stop by police officers is just crummy. if the money was collected to donate to charity or to hire more police to make more stops then I would could accept it easier. Since we all know to well government never spends money well this will simply go tot he local budget for another revenue stream to be used improperly. I see it every day, people stop short and make rash decisions like caged animals. hopefully a bill moving forward in New jersey will bring the end to these cameras. The cameras will provide nothing to help teaching good driving skills and these cameras do not address the problem of poor behavior in our society.

Hate to say it, but it seems like you're the one being stupid here. If you're "making decisions" when you see a yellow light, you are part of the problem that the rest of us have to deal with. Yellow lights have only one purpose, and that is to alert you that the light is changing. This is a courtesy light since you can't just have a green light transition to a red light. It's not, nor was it ever intended to be, an extension of the green light. The only thing you should be considering when you see a yellow light is safely slowing to a stop. If you're thinking about doing anything else, you're usually creating a hazard. As for the old "rear ending" mantra we hear so often, how often do you accelerate through a yellow light, with a person in front of you, without first checking to see if that person is braking? My guess would be never. You check and see if that idiot ahead of you is going to try to make it through before you decide to put your fellow drivers at risk and try the same stupid stunt, and if you see brake lights come on ahead of you, you stop too.

As for the unconstitutionality of these cameras, that dodge has been tried and tried again, and comes up the losing side of the debate every time.

 

[MarPar]

Since we all know to well government never spends money well, this will simply go to the local budget for another revenue stream to be used improperly.

^^^^this right here

 

[Hemirunner]

I got a red light camera ticket in Florida. I was trying to clear an intersection and the yellow was virtually nonexistent. Florida has some of the worst drivers out there due in part by the combination of the elderly and the illegals. English is the second language in that cesspool so most can't read let alone properly study for a driver's exam. Speaking of drivers exams, the last one that I took had more questions regarding insurance requirements on it than questions on how to drive. It's a joke.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

obviously anyone who thinks these things are a good idea hasn't driven through Toledo ( i do every day). they rip though the green and yellow so fast in the left turn lanes your lucky to get 2 cars through the light before it turns red and sends you a ticket. ask me how i know, third car in line making a left turn and the guy in the middle was taking his sweet time. i usually get nailed every few years, and i'd like to consider myself a good driver. they also have tons of speed traps with them things set up. 45 down to 25 bam, camera. i see people do all kinds of crazy **** to avoid them things at intersections. usually driving through what ever business is on the corner. if there are intersections that are that much of a problem, increase police presence in that area. technology is not making this a better world. screw the big brother cams...

 

[YY1]

Minor point, but another effect has been an increasingly large segment of the "elderly" drivers that now refuse to turn right on red EVER for fear of getting an automated ticket (even at intersections without cameras).

I know that you are not required to turn right on red, but it can be very frustrating siting behind gramma for eight minutes with absolutely NO cross traffic.

I've also noticed an increase in people who refuse to even enter the intersection on green, if making a left turn, when opposing traffic is present, for fear of being caught when the light changes to yellow.

 

[Cranky]

In Texas, the state won't come after you if you don't pay the 'caught by camera' fine but they will put it on your credit report. If there's a problem intersection, put a damn cop out there. Let someone borrow your car and you get a ticket for a traffic violation that they did? Screw that crap. Big brother already is on our backs too much as it is without giving them yet another way to screw over you. You don't like someone taking up your green light. Just run on out there and hit the bastards. That'll stop em

 

[RustyRatRod]

..........most can't read let alone properly study for a driver's exam.

Then they shouldn't be allowed to drive. PERIOD.

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It is also legal in most places to turn left on red onto a one way, but so few drivers know it. Now you'll see that disappear, too.

Minor point, but another effect has been an increasingly large segment of the "elderly" drivers that now refuse to turn right on red EVER for fear of getting an automated ticket (even at intersections without cameras).

I know that you are not required to turn right on red, but it can be very frustrating siting behind gramma for eight minutes with absolutely NO cross traffic.

I've also noticed an increase in people who refuse to even enter the intersection on green, if making a left turn, when opposing traffic is present, for fear of being caught when the light changes to yellow.

 

[roadrunnerman]

Then they shouldn't be allowed to drive. PERIOD.

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It is also legal in most places to turn left on red onto a one way, but so few drivers know it. Now you'll see that disappear, too.

Yes it is, but you have to be on a one way street making a left turn onto another one way street. I'm pretty sure if you're on a two-way street, you can't turn left onto a one-way street As far as red light camera's, there will never be an agreement to this debate. My brother(truck driver) got a red light ticket while he was going thru the light when it was yellow( so he said) in Hannibal,Mo. The photo did not show his face, so if he wanted to fight it he had to show proof that he was not driving the truck, as in he sold the truck,then had to show receipt for said sold truck, which he didn't sell it. He ended up paying the ticket. $119 I think it was. My wife got a speeding ticket sent to her in the mail from a speed camera. The photo showed the back of her car(red intrepid), 2 people in the car(her & her mother), and her license plate but the photo was so grainy you couldn't see the letters/numbers on it clearly.

 

[YY1]

Oh, another thing...our local municipality has been cought a few times sending tickets to folks with license plate numbers that only matched 3 or 4 out of the 6 characters. Some times on vehicles that bear only a slight resemblance to the one in the photograph (IE- it was "red", or it was "a Dodge").

How many people pay this because they think there's no use fighting it?

Why not err on the side of the citizen (and admit you can't read the plate), rather than invoke a lengthy and complex, frustrating process (for someone that's likely not guilty), especially for a minor (and/or questionable) infraction?

 

[Flys-Lo]

Speaking of reading plates and using judgement to issue the tickets - here locally the biggest offenders were the city owned cars, police cars and basically any car with a government plate. The "officials" had a way figured out to discard those photos and made sure those infractions never saw the light of day.

This just hit the newswire 4 minutes ago: http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.c...-problems-with-citys-red-light-camera-program

It reads:
"First was the revelation that because of union contracts, city employees caught running red lights don’t have to pay the $50 fine."

"The most recent eyebrow-raiser is the admission that yellow lights were cut short at intersections. The problem has been blamed on a software glitch, and the city will “halt, review, and potentially cancel hundreds of red light violations” as a result, says the Democrat and Chronicle."

Software glitch my a$$. This is a common theme everywhere these things have been placed all across the country. Cutting yellow light times is a dangerous move that results in more accidents and higher fatality rates. Nice job.