We Finally Got Our Red Light Cameras!

[Cranky]

I quit going downtown when Houston installed the cameras. I know that people who work down there don't have that choice but downtown Houston lost my business and I let the city know that by sending them a letter. Many people complained about it besides me but I don't know if it had any bearing on the city taking them down or not. Big waste of tax dollars imo. Like I said before, put a cop out on the corner instead. At least a human might even be able to stop a crime in progress instead of just take pics of it happening.

 

[Bruzilla]

It may have been mentioned here before - if so I missed it but...

In my state when the cameras went up the duration of the yellow light was shortened. Many lawsuits ensued (no pun intended) and the state had to refund a-lottaaaaaa munny. I'm all for safer roads, I have a wife and children I want to keep safe, and nice cars I want to keep nice. But I hate government intrusion and especially dislike the ba$tards who would shorten a yellow light to make money - AT THE EXPENSE of safety.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/red_light_cams_red_light_cam_0NJ954EGA2bSvVQcalErXJ

Your NY Post article is a perfect example of the misinformation a lot of the anti-camera crowd loves to use. There's this general misconception that there is a three-second rule for yellow lights. There is no such rule. Since 2011, all states have been mandated to set yellow light times as per the Federal DOT Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, which are largely determined by road speed at the intersection. So if you check the time at an intersection of roads with 45 MPH, 35 MPH, 25 MPH, and 15 MPH speed limits, the yellow times will be different at each one, so you can't just go out to intersections with cameras and without and compare times because you have to compare them against intersections with identical speed limits, and these newsies never do that because they think there actually is a three-second rule. You also have to factor in temporary speed limit changes such as construction. A road may have a 45 MPH speed limit, but due to some construction the speed limit has been temporarily reduced to 25 MPH. Did the engineers bother to go change the signal times, or did they say why bother since the construction isn't long-term and left them where they were?

Here's a report from a TV station in Columbus http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/12/04/columbus-10investigates-yellow-light-tests.html that's the same deal. They're out there testing yellow lights for that mythical three-second rule that doesn't exist!

Also, if your state is Ohio, I would like to see some references to all these lawsuits and refunds you're talking about because I can't find any. There was a spate of lawsuits in Toledo that the drivers lost, and a class action suit in Dayton that wasn't actually about the red light camera tickets. It was a class action suit brought about by people who had multiple unpaid red light tickets who had their cars towed, and had to pay a huge towing and impound fee. They didn't win either, but Dayton decided to lower the towing costs provided the drivers entered into a payment plan. So I would sure like to hear about these wins and refunds it you can post some links to news reports of them.

- - - Updated - - -

Speaking of reading plates and using judgement to issue the tickets - here locally the biggest offenders were the city owned cars, police cars and basically any car with a government plate. The "officials" had a way figured out to discard those photos and made sure those infractions never saw the light of day.

This just hit the newswire 4 minutes ago: http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.c...-problems-with-citys-red-light-camera-program

It reads:
"First was the revelation that because of union contracts, city employees caught running red lights don’t have to pay the $50 fine."

"The most recent eyebrow-raiser is the admission that yellow lights were cut short at intersections. The problem has been blamed on a software glitch, and the city will “halt, review, and potentially cancel hundreds of red light violations” as a result, says the Democrat and Chronicle."

Software glitch my a$$. This is a common theme everywhere these things have been placed all across the country. Cutting yellow light times is a dangerous move that results in more accidents and higher fatality rates. Nice job.

Now that's one point I can agree with. I think every place with cameras exempts government vehicles from tickets, and that's not right.

 

[Propwash]

Those would be an absolute disaster around here with at least 4-5 months with snow/ice on the road...Usually on that stuff, its play it by ear and not only check the light but check to see if someone is sliding through or going to run through because there's no way they can stop anyways. I can see down south. I don't live in the heavy urban areas like some of you guys, but have been through plenty of big cities where folks run through red lights because they really don't give a crap. I don't know about camera's though...How about pay some pimple faced kids $20 bucks to sit there and peg the cars running the lights down with a paintball guns..lol

 

[Flys-Lo]

Also, if your state is Ohio, I would like to see some references to all these lawsuits and refunds you're talking about because I can't find any. So I would sure like to hear about these wins and refunds it you can post some links to news reports of them.

Sorry Bruzilla if I seemed confusing in my reply, not my intent but I see you've read my location under my name. My main home is in Ohio but we also have a home on Siesta Key / Sarasota Florida. In addition I own a business with offices in four states of which I have employee's driving company vehicles. I have firsthand knowledge of refunds in Cleveland because we received them for two infractions. It may not have made the papers but it was shown on the local TV news. I've also read countless articles on the subject in trade magazines as well as in the SEMA News as I'm a member with access to their legislation and publications. I may have gotten some states confused but I don't believe that negates my point - that sooner or later many municipalities are forced by court order to refund a lot of revenue collected from traffic monitoring devices. Now please don't misunderstand me - I am NOT advocating the discontinuation of traffic monitoring and enforcing traffic laws (I would just rather see an honest human get the job). As mentioned before I have a wife whom I love and four children who I'd die for, out navigating the roads every day. I don't accept madmen and ricky racers out to prove something on our roads. I am also a cyclist - both motorcycle and bicycle and you can NEVER be too careful when on two wheels. My personal and business insurance requires that I run a safe operation and require my employees to have a clean record. What I cannot stand for is deceit by our elected officials who get "creative" in revenue collecting. Many of your sources relate stories of comparing yellow light duration with other locations - which you're right to say is incorrect. The link I provided above speaks to how "software glitches" reduced the original yellow down to "catch" more offenders (comparing the same light - before and after cameras). Since there is no law dictating the yellow duration these companies and municipalities can AND DO manipulate the system to their mutual benefit. Here are some links to current and past lawsuits in states I do business in on a regular basis as well as my secondary home state of Florida:

NJ: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/settlement_reached_in_red-ligh.html
FL: http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/...n-st-pete-seeing-red-over-short-yellow-lights
FL: http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/st...ht-camera-cases-could-refund-millions-dollars (watch this one closely)
NJ: http://brick.patch.com/articles/partial-refunds-may-come-to-red-light-cam-violators-under-settlement
AZ: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ces-city-to-refund-tickets-over-short-yellow/
FL: http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/06/17/city-to-issue-refunds-for-red-light-camera-tickets/

Lastly - and in my mind this drives the point home; here is a video / article showing how these bandits took the SAME light, SAME intersection and reduced the yellow in one direction only. So... northbound gets 4 seconds, southbound gets only 3. You're SOL if you're driving south because that camera issued over 1600 more tickets than northbound.
Things that make you go "hmmmmmm".

http://www.democratandchronicle.com...cancel-red-light-tickets-over-software-glitch

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Whether it's red light cameras or college tuition or gas prices, it's ALWAYS all about money. On one hand it makes me sick - they find some excuse to take advantage of things. On the other hand, it does take money to keep the luxuries we enjoy here going. I just don't like the way they go about it. Unfortunately, most times in these cases the old adage of do it right or don't do it at all does not apply. And the city,county, and state giving control to these third parties to rake in the dough - its just like a lawyer -they are the only ones who come out ahead.

Then they CUT money and cancel things like mandatory drivers ed in schools. Back when it was required there were still people on the road that should never have been given a license but I think it's even worse now. Here in San Jose where it's really crowded and there are a high number of illegals as well as what seems like an increasing number of knuckleheads both young and old and of all ethnic origins including white, I am genuinely nervous of getting hit every time I take my '68 on the road. I don't remember it being like that an hour north of me in the 80's and it's much easier driving in other surrounding cities today. San jose is horrible though. Like one of the other posters said, many times these people running red lights are clueless and don't even realize they just cut you off or ran the light. I am serious. I see it all the time and it's not always being distracted on the cell phone either. Many times I see it and i think they are zoned out or asleep with their eyes open - little old ladies, young teenage girls, and middle aged soccer moms. Cops are the worst drivers! I see them run red lights all the time and talk on their cell while driving too. One time i followed a cop on her cell that was driving and laughing up a storm. I tried to pull alongside her with my window down and get her attention for fun. In 5 miles at 6 stops she never noticed me. She's a knucklehead too!

My wife is a very alert driver and notices these drivers too and is always saying " come on hit me! Momma needs a new car!" the trouble with that is, I personally was in a car that got backed up into by a van full of illegals. Before the cops came another car showed up and they unloaded a bunch of crap that appeared to be drugs and they tried to pay us off in cash. I am surprised they didn't hit and run us. When the cops arrived, after talking to them they came over and told us we were on our own cuz they were undocumented with no insurance and they let them go. What kind of B.S. is that?!

One last thing - if you are slamming on your brakes at a yellow light and getting rear ended then you are probably driving too fast.

 

[pabster]

Pabster...What I am saying is that you constantly invoke the premise that the Federal Gov't is the answer and has all the solutions to every single issue and problem that there is. If you really think that a mandated Fed Requirement is the only solution, then where are we as individuals. It is called "Common Sense" and doing what is Right. If the masses would instead look to them selves rather than the Gov't to correct things then we wouldn't have this need for all these Federal Rules and Regulations. Yet you continue to espouse that that is the solution. And stop attempting to put words into others mouths. I made no mention of surveillance. At least as I re-read what I first said I didn't see that. Finally...Yes you are a "Clown" and a follower of the PC Sheeple as far as I am concerned. And I dare say that quite a few here will agree with me on that. You continually never have anything of forethought to say and quite frankly it makes for a really trying and devoid rhetoric. I believe it's called "Sheer Profundity....

Since this thread has nothing to do with liberal vs conservative, and you're making personal judgements and insults, you're the clown. I don't want more cameras watching me or other Americans. I want people to be better educated as drivers so that the roads are safer for me and other Americans. That doesn't show forethought? Just keep bashing people just like Fox News and Rush tell you to, OK?

 

[YY1]

I'd like to ask any of the pro-red light camera crowd a couple of questions.

First, let me reiterate that I am 100% in favor of prosecuting drivers who run red lights "at speed" and cause accidents (or crashes, whatever), and I'm also in favor of using video footage as evidence.

Now the questions-

If you think it's OK, under the guise of the above statement, to "collaterally" ticket 1000% more drivers than the intended targets mentioned above, for what could be considered minor infractions such as failure to completely stop (or failure to stop in the "correct" location), before making a right on red...

Question 1- Are you also OK with cameras at EVERY intersection, including residential and rural areas, such as the ones near your home?

Question 2- Have you ever exceeded the posted speed limit?

Question 3- Have you ever executed an "improper start" (burn out) on a public road.
That's a crime in Florida, just for the record.

Question 4- Are all of your vehicles (including those that may be non-operational) tagged and insured?


If the answers to questions 2 and/or 3 are "no", then may I ask what is the purpose of owning a car, severly over powered, capable of, and claerly designed to be in conflict with, those particular types of laws?....and here's my oportunity to say this....perhaps you should buy a honda.

...and I'm pretty sure any answeres that contain "I only do that at the track" are certainly BS.

- - - Updated - - -

...and on a related note...

This could also be considered an early attempt to outsource and/or privatize certian aspects of law enforecment.

I don't know about you, but I fear the day when it is in the financial best interest of a corporation for me to be a criminal.

 

[RustyRatRod]

http://redlightcameraspray.com/

 

[Cranky]

I remember one of the sayings with the 'hippie dippy' crowd of the 60's was 'big brother is watching' or 'big brother is coming'....well, big brother has been watching us for a long time now and is coming to impose on your life and they are imposing on our lives more and more as the years go by all in the name of security and protection. What's next and when will we all be required to get that micro chip implant so our every move can be monitored?

 

[Budnicks]

I said in an earlier post the fines here in Calif. are $175 a friend that has gotten one & had to actually pay the fine, told me it's a $285 where he got the ticket in Sacramento @ the corner of Stockton Blvd & Power Inn Rd. a busy intersection, maybe it goes by the location or something, adding another layer of possible miss use/overuse-age &/or corruption/fraud... just a note it was for partially blocking the orther side of the intersection, Car not completey crossed the other side, not running a red light...

 

[pabster]

http://redlightcameraspray.com/

That stuff is bogus. Don't work. None of the other "countermeasures" work either.

http://radartest.com/Red-Light-Camera-Countermeasures-Test.asp

 

[cr8crshr]

Since this thread has nothing to do with liberal vs conservative, and you're making personal judgements and insults, you're the clown. I don't want more cameras watching me or other Americans. I want people to be better educated as drivers so that the roads are safer for me and other Americans. That doesn't show forethought? Just keep bashing people just like Fox News and Rush tell you to, OK?

You are really quite emotional aren't you Pabster??? Your last sentence really shows your true colors. Just another blathering Liberal Idiot Clown. You cannot change the facts Bozo.....:icon_butt:

 

[pabster]

Picking fights from behind a computer. You must feel like such a bad ***. I really have better things to do than care what you have to say, little man. Have a nice day.

 

[Flys-Lo]

Hey Bruzilla - looks like your new camera's are up and running!

 

[day1glo]

I know the cameras that were in Sioux Falls were monitored by a company in Arizona! Most of the revinue went to a private company instead of staying In state... I would feel better about fines if the money stayed in the state.

My personal opinion is cameras should never be used. The illusion of freedom in this country gets thinner and thinner every year. Laws do nothing to regulate human behavior, luckily I happen to agree with most of them, and ignore those I don't.

 

[cr8crshr]

Picking fights from behind a computer. You must feel like such a bad ***. I really have better things to do than care what you have to say, little man. Have a nice day.

:icon_butt::thebirdman::icon_butt::icon_butt:

 

[YY1]

I find it interesting that the two members that seem to be arguing the extreme right and the extreme left viewpoints both seem to agree with my analysis.

I believe my work here is done.

 

[HT413]

With all these red light cameras, now more people run the red lights at intersections that dont have em. Seems people are starting to think the only reason to follow rules is someone might be watching.

 

[67Satty]

I know the cameras that were in Sioux Falls were monitored by a company in Arizona! Most of the revinue went to a private company instead of staying In state... I would feel better about fines if the money stayed in the state.

And the parent company of the Arizona company is based in Australia so some of the money is actually leaving the country.

 

[Budnicks]

sad state of affairs

And the parent company of the Arizona company is based in Australia so some of the money is actually leaving the country.

:iamwithstupid: That's really the sad part of the story.... Isn't there at least any USA made/owned systems or a locally owned American Company, that can supply & man these Red-Light cameras/systems ??, if we have to absolutely, have to use them... Can't we at least have the States, Counties & Cities purchasing an American Mfgr/Owned & Ran/Manned product/services ??, let alone being able to produce/mfgr these products competitively & for a fair price here, for our own use... Buying a product/system/srevices Made In the USA, By American, for use here 1st, I think that would be a great concept, for all States, Counties & Cities to have to adher to, it could benefit the whole country, even if it costs a little more $$$$...