What is the cubic inch and compression ratio of this build?

[lewtot184]

looking at that flame cut i hope your not using 1009 head gaskets.

 

[Paul_G]

looking at that flame cut i hope your not using 1009 head gaskets.

I would have to pull a head to see what head gasket he used. If I do that can the head be torqued back down on the same gasket?

 

[lewtot184]

i've pulled a head off and re-torqued a fel-pro gasket before, but everything was new and clean and went back in the same position it came off. that looks like a 1009 "tattoo" to me; been there done that. best of luck.

 

[4406bbl]

I would have to pull a head to see what head gasket he used. If I do that can the head be torqued back down on the same gasket?

I slotted a head like that with the 1009, I would pull a head and be sure.

 

[Paul_G]

I will pull a head then. What is a preferable head gasket to use? Cometic mls?

 

[beanhead]

I will pull a head then. What is a preferable head gasket to use? Cometic mls?

Nothing wrong with the standard Felpro 8519-PT1 at your compression level. They're more forgiving of the surfaces, have a tad bigger bore size, and...they're not expensive. People like the MLS but they need the proper deck surfacing (I doubt that shop finished them to the proper RA for those style gaskets, but you could ask them if you wanted to go that route) plus they do cost a bit more....

 

[Challenger340]

looking at that flame cut i hope your not using 1009 head gaskets.

OK I'll bite.... what's the problem with the Fel Pro 1009 Head Gasket ?

 

[Challenger340]

I slotted a head like that with the 1009, I would pull a head and be sure.

Can you elaborate about the "problem".... as it relates to the Fel Pro 1009 Head Gasket being the culprit ?

 

[Paul_G]

 

[4406bbl]

Fire ring is too close to the cylinder with that gasket. Some heads the valve reliefs allow 1009 the hang over slightly. As you know bb mopar head gaskets do not have a round fire ring, the 1009 seems to be The smallest worst design of the felpros. The regular felpro 8519 always fit better for me. The marine gasket 17059 4.500 fire ring is all that will work on some blocks and heads. Do a google search on 1009 gaskets, you will find many problems. If your engine has not been painted you can see the edge of the gasket,
8519 is light blue, 1009 dark blue, 17059 black. If you pull the intake you can usually tell what you have for sure.

 

[4406bbl]

Can you elaborate about the "problem".... as it relates to the Fel Pro 1009 Head Gasket being the culprit ?

In this exact case I bought a used motor and when it did that the gasket barely overhang the bore at .055 bore. Had the head welded, put 17059 on and it is still running with nitrous and never lost another gasket. I just assembled a .030 440 with 67 heads, 2.14/1.81 valves and the 1009 overhangs the exhaust valve reliefs. 8519 will work on it. 1009 is a great gasket if it fits your combo.

 

[lewtot184]

the above posts speak for the problem. a 1009 might be ok for a small bore 361 or 413 but even then i wouldn't use them. i don't know why fel-pro still makes those pieces of crap. i use the 8519 but some prefer the marine gasket. main thing is the fire ring needs to be noticeably away from the bore. i think the burnt gasket allowed cylinder pressure in the coolant system and that's what blew the freeze plug; especially a brass plug. a 1009 with alum head and a few WOT passes (and i mean very few) and the head is torched.

 

[4406bbl]

I am no engineer but I think if a 1009 is close to bore edge it glows around the flattened wire ring. I think when the head is torqued there is no way there is not still a small airspace between the block and head, or maybe internally in the gasket, right at that flattened o-ring. Metal, airspace, gas, fire=meltdown. They seem to be ok if they are set back from the bore or valve reliefs.

 

[PRHeads]

I have been bitten by the 1009 gasket overhang issue on a 600hp 446, and also repaired a 557 Indy motor that suffered a burn situation very similar to the OP.
Another acquaintance had numerous failures with them before going to something else(which ended the problems).
The two I was personally involved with, the problem was the gasket overhanging the block ever so slightly.
There were no issues with the gasket and the heads on those two, but I have seen heads where they would have been a problem.

I won’t put them on a 440 or 400 block.
With the right heads on a 383/426 that hasn’t been overbored a bunch, they should be okay.
Just verify the edge of the gasket is absolutely positively outside of the bore chamfer, on every bore, all the way around.

For a build of the caliber of the OP’s build, head gaskets aren’t a place where I would scrimp.
I would have used 4.410” bore Cometics.

 

[4406bbl]

the above posts speak for the problem. a 1009 might be ok for a small bore 361 or 413 but even then i wouldn't use them. i don't know why fel-pro still makes those pieces of crap. i use the 8519 but some prefer the marine gasket. main thing is the fire ring needs to be noticeably away from the bore. i think the burnt gasket allowed cylinder pressure in the coolant system and that's what blew the freeze plug; especially a brass plug. a 1009 with alum head and a few WOT passes (and i mean very few) and the head is torched.

Good point on the frost plug. I was wondering how it could just overheat and do that damage. It almost makes you wonder if the head bolts were loose, too long or something else let that head lift, unless the OP was beating on it. In the end it may just be the gasket, and not really the builders fault. I have seen the marine gasket used with slight overhang at the valve relief .005 and never fail but it has a stainless steel fire ring. All the bad 1009 I have seen fail between the cylinders. If that was my engine I would pull the heads, check for flatness, make sure head bolts or studs clamp it right, pick a gasket and live a happy life. Green locktite on those frostplugs for me.

 

[lewtot184]

something else i do with heads, especially alum, is check the fit on the dowel pins. look to see if the dowels are mushroomed from being knocked in and make sure there is no friction between the head and dowels. i usually loosen that fit a tad. alum is not stable like cast iron and wants to move around a little. the weak link is between the inner cylinders.

 

[Paul_G]

I would have used 4.410” bore Cometics.

This is the information I need. I will pull the heads and use the Cometics 4.410 bore.

unless the OP was beating on it. Green locktite on those frostplugs for me.

First plug to come out was right after doing a rolling full throttle run to 4500 RPM in first and second gears. I was close to home and saw the coolant drips on my driveway as I pulled in.

Second plug came out a week later. I was on a back road behind the mountain doing about 130 in 4th gear around 4500 RPM. This time not so lucky, I did not know the plug came out till the engine started smoking and sputtering. Fatal damage done.

All the plugs were replaced using the tall shoulder plugs with Aviation sealant.

 

[4406bbl]

Aviation is good too. Great choice to go cometic. Put the heads on with no gasket and be sure they sit all the way down. Others can chime in on a little sealant around the water passages or not, if the block and heads are a little rough it could seep. Some guys use a little hylomar, others say copper coat.