Which is better and why? Old 440 or newer 6.4?

[Curiousyellow71]

No it wouldn’t. I think either motor is a great choice but the truth of the matter is parts are getting harder to find. New motors are cool because they also take a lot of the hassle on maintenance but if I see a new hemi in an old car it’s still bad ***!! Shows the evolution of 50 plus years

I had to go to three stores to find a filter for my 70 olds cutlass stock 350 rocket but for my 69 ls swapped camaro I find anything at any grocery store

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It wouldn't what????

I am not impressed by what any of the parts stores carry....new or old. Chances are you will need to order any part no matter what the year. The hard to find parts are not on the drivetrain...its body and interior for a 67 r/t.

He already has a 440. So what's he buying that is so hard to find? The aftermarket is still doing well on these old cars. You are also likely relying on the aftermarket on a 6.4 swap.

I will always be disappointed when I see a new engine swapped in a REAL muscle car from the 60s and 70s. My opinion doesn't have to match yours. Do what you want.

 

[Dodge Bros]

I love the Gen 3 platforms, but it isn’t that difficult to match the 6.4’s 485 HP with a RB or a B engine. The 6.4 can do better than that with headers and a better tune. Set up with a well thought out 440 combo and an overdrive in the 440’s the milage and HP won’t be all that different and much less cost versus a gen3 retro fit.

The gen3 swap you can add almost 2K for the kit for the headers, oil pan, oil pickup, engine mounts, then another 2K for wiring looms, another 2K+ for something like a Terminator X controller, plus all the controls in the car. Gen 3 Hemi platform is not for the weak of wallet. By the time you put that money into a big block the 440 will likely be a 100 HP over the 485HP 6.4. A do it yourself guy can do the 6.4 fairly reasonable. But hiring it done with all the incidentals cost is most of the way to a old school 426Hemi swap.

Below the table that is not labeled below lists the stock 6.4 head flow. Middle is with some porting, right column is the exh flow. Compared to the exhaust flow to a stock exh on a trick flow 240 the 6.4 is pretty weak. The TF240’s are just one big block head example, but it would take a very mild 440 with TF240s to rein it it to only make 485HP like a 6.4 crate engine and be thousands of dollars cheaper.

 

[Dan64]

No it wouldn’t. I think either motor is a great choice but the truth of the matter is parts are getting harder to find. New motors are cool because they also take a lot of the hassle on maintenance but if I see a new hemi in an old car it’s still bad ***!! Shows the evolution of 50 plus years

I had to go to three stores to find a filter for my 70 olds cutlass stock 350 rocket but for my 69 ls swapped camaro I find anything at any grocery store

View attachment 1419243

Man, if you feel the need to buy parts for your classic muscle car at the grocery store i'm afraid that you "Don't get it". I'll add that if you "humble brag" a post like you did, don't use a picture of a Camero on a Mopar forum ,lol. Not that there is anything wrong with a Camero...my dad had a Camero (Seinfeld)

 

[pnora]

Grocery store? WTF. I knew that was for the rice burners with Uncle Ben'S and minute rice.

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

Oil filters and oil are $5 cheaper at Walmart then Oreillys

 

[blue69runner]

Build the motor is much less painful than trying to swap a different motor into the car. Rebuilt a 383 for less than 3.000 dollars with my motor builder. He found me a better crank than I had it was a score mark on the bearing race. Did not cost me anything for it. Good luck on the build.

 

[Roger63]

Oil filters and oil are $5 cheaper at Walmart then Oreillys

Yes but O'Reillys will price match if ya don't want to go to Walmart.

 

[440 PHIXX]

No it wouldn’t. I think either motor is a great choice but the truth of the matter is parts are getting harder to find. New motors are cool because they also take a lot of the hassle on maintenance but if I see a new hemi in an old car it’s still bad ***!! Shows the evolution of 50 plus years

I had to go to three stores to find a filter for my 70 olds cutlass stock 350 rocket but for my 69 ls swapped camaro I find anything at any grocery store

View attachment 1419243

That is a sweet looking ‘69! Awesome grill and lights design on the RS.

 

[Sam69sat]

440 or 426 Hemi ONLY for a 67 Coronet R/T IMHO. If you have the funds to do a 6.4 swap, you can easily pick up a run of the mill coronet to do a 6.4 swap.

 

[Purepony]

That is a sweet looking ‘69! Awesome grill and lights design on the RS.

Thank you. I’m glad to see some members appreciate other classics besides mopars.

 

[Gunner1]

Having had a 6.4 Chrysler 300c, tuned to 435 rwhp. And now my 63 Polara with a mild build 440. I am loving the 440 a lot better. It sounds and feels more primal. And it’s much easier to work on. I’ll dyno it some day. But I’m too busy having fun with it. My 300 was most likely a mid 12 car. I think the 63 should easily do that number.

 

[SlinktRR]

Kind of a situation-specific question. I have been away for a very long time. Life got in the way and my Coronet has been sitting dormant with the engine in pieces. I want to do something with it, but I just don't have the time, so I'm thinking of farming it out. Anyway, in short, it is an R/T with a period-correct 440, but not numbers matching and not the hi-po version that should be in there. I had bought a bunch of parts for it, such as the edelbrock intake, carb, cams, and valve springs. The big question, though, should I continue down this path and have the 440 finished as is? Should it be rebuild from the bottom up with the goal of 450-500hp? Or should I go with a crate 6.4? There are so many things to take into consideration, but I think the biggest one for me would be: which would be more desirable? Since it isn't numbers matching anyway, originality is kind of out the window. But would the car be worth more with a period-correct big block that has been resto-modded or with a reliable and possibly higher-powered and fuel injected modern engine?

So that's the big topic. Smaller topics:
1. Anybody know a good place in or near NJ for this work? I have reached out to 5 or 6 places and only 1 person replied (more on this below).
2. I'm a little confused about the transmission issue. Will the BB 727 mate with a 6.4 crate? I have found SB plates, but nothing yet on BB. I know the 6.4 is a SB, so I guess the question is if there is a plate to convert the BB trans to a SB? Or can the bell housings be swapped??

On the whole "someone to do the work," I think I'm scaring them off. I just have NO IDEA what this work costs. The one who responded said "I won't give an estimate through email. I have to see it." Ok, it doesn't run and is in boxes, so how the hell am I supposed to do that? I even broke it down to, what I thought, was a simple ask. I said "how much to remove the 440, rebuild it to 450-500hp, and reinstall it?" He still said "I have to see it." Maybe I'm crazy, but I would think that should be something that could be estimated. Obviously, if the block is cracked, that changes things, but just say that. "If ..... then .... $xxxxx." I mean, what do folks do? Trailer the car to them, drop it off, and give a blank check? OK, I'm sure some do. Like I said in my emails to them, I just need to know if we're talking $10k or $100k.

Call John Rogers at long valley service in north jersey:
Auto Repair Shop | Long Valley Service

He is 100% Mopar, has a 70 challenger and knows these cars completely. It's a mechanic shop for all makes all years not restoration but he is a good resource for getting Mopar work done correctly. If you want to build an engine there are several places in tri state but I like carlquist competition engines in Waterbury CT. They can do all the planning, machining and assembly to your budget. Talk to Bill, tell him what parts you have and your goals. They'll build it and put it on the dyno.

Custom Engines for Ultimate Performance.

And yes, 440 is the ticket!

 

[fj5gtx]

That would not be a very good motor for a daily driver on pump gas. If you wanna go that route a 6.4 with headers, a single 4 intake, and a locked down cam makes 605 horsepower. The 6.4 has better heads.

Did OP really say he wanted this R/T setup as a daily? He could go with a little less cam if he wanted it more tame, but he doesn't really say what his end state desire is. Trickflow likely ran that dyno on 93 octane, I doubt they are putting together a general kit that requires race fuel.

 

[Dennis H]

440.

 

[mountain33]

Kind of a situation-specific question. I have been away for a very long time. Life got in the way and my Coronet has been sitting dormant with the engine in pieces. I want to do something with it, but I just don't have the time, so I'm thinking of farming it out. Anyway, in short, it is an R/T with a period-correct 440, but not numbers matching and not the hi-po version that should be in there. I had bought a bunch of parts for it, such as the edelbrock intake, carb, cams, and valve springs. The big question, though, should I continue down this path and have the 440 finished as is? Should it be rebuild from the bottom up with the goal of 450-500hp? Or should I go with a crate 6.4? There are so many things to take into consideration, but I think the biggest one for me would be: which would be more desirable? Since it isn't numbers matching anyway, originality is kind of out the window. But would the car be worth more with a period-correct big block that has been resto-modded or with a reliable and possibly higher-powered and fuel injected modern engine?

So that's the big topic. Smaller topics:
1. Anybody know a good place in or near NJ for this work? I have reached out to 5 or 6 places and only 1 person replied (more on this below).
2. I'm a little confused about the transmission issue. Will the BB 727 mate with a 6.4 crate? I have found SB plates, but nothing yet on BB. I know the 6.4 is a SB, so I guess the question is if there is a plate to convert the BB trans to a SB? Or can the bell housings be swapped??

On the whole "someone to do the work," I think I'm scaring them off. I just have NO IDEA what this work costs. The one who responded said "I won't give an estimate through email. I have to see it." Ok, it doesn't run and is in boxes, so how the hell am I supposed to do that? I even broke it down to, what I thought, was a simple ask. I said "how much to remove the 440, rebuild it to 450-500hp, and reinstall it?" He still said "I have to see it." Maybe I'm crazy, but I would think that should be something that could be estimated. Obviously, if the block is cracked, that changes things, but just say that. "If ..... then .... $xxxxx." I mean, what do folks do? Trailer the car to them, drop it off, and give a blank check? OK, I'm sure some do. Like I said in my emails to them, I just need to know if we're talking $10k or $100k.

If you're up in the northern area off jersey just across the border in Middletown NY is precision motors. Good shop. They have done a lot of race engines that race at the local track there. If you need pm and can send you number.

 

[Chilsam]

ferferty

 

[DeltaV]

The 7.21 liter engine, not the 6.4 for your
MCMLXVII GTX.

 

[Kern Dog]

Thank you. I’m glad to see some members appreciate other classics besides mopars.

I'm not a Mopar only guy but they are my favorite. I have owned 4 Camaros and 3 Firebirds. I like those as well.

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

Thank you. I’m glad to see some members appreciate other classics besides mopars.

The only cars I really don’t like are mustangs, tri 5 Chevys, and first generation Camaros. Everything else is cool

 

[rmchrgr]

Kind of a situation-specific question. I have been away for a very long time. Life got in the way and my Coronet has been sitting dormant with the engine in pieces. I want to do something with it, but I just don't have the time, so I'm thinking of farming it out. Anyway, in short, it is an R/T with a period-correct 440, but not numbers matching and not the hi-po version that should be in there. I had bought a bunch of parts for it, such as the edelbrock intake, carb, cams, and valve springs. The big question, though, should I continue down this path and have the 440 finished as is? Should it be rebuild from the bottom up with the goal of 450-500hp? Or should I go with a crate 6.4? There are so many things to take into consideration, but I think the biggest one for me would be: which would be more desirable? Since it isn't numbers matching anyway, originality is kind of out the window. But would the car be worth more with a period-correct big block that has been resto-modded or with a reliable and possibly higher-powered and fuel injected modern engine?

So that's the big topic. Smaller topics:
1. Anybody know a good place in or near NJ for this work? I have reached out to 5 or 6 places and only 1 person replied (more on this below).
2. I'm a little confused about the transmission issue. Will the BB 727 mate with a 6.4 crate? I have found SB plates, but nothing yet on BB. I know the 6.4 is a SB, so I guess the question is if there is a plate to convert the BB trans to a SB? Or can the bell housings be swapped??

On the whole "someone to do the work," I think I'm scaring them off. I just have NO IDEA what this work costs. The one who responded said "I won't give an estimate through email. I have to see it." Ok, it doesn't run and is in boxes, so how the hell am I supposed to do that? I even broke it down to, what I thought, was a simple ask. I said "how much to remove the 440, rebuild it to 450-500hp, and reinstall it?" He still said "I have to see it." Maybe I'm crazy, but I would think that should be something that could be estimated. Obviously, if the block is cracked, that changes things, but just say that. "If ..... then .... $xxxxx." I mean, what do folks do? Trailer the car to them, drop it off, and give a blank check? OK, I'm sure some do. Like I said in my emails to them, I just need to know if we're talking $10k or $100k.

Switching from an existing 440 (in pieces or otherwise) to a Gen III hemi is not just a mere engine swap. You need all sorts of periphery stuff like an ECU and wiring, fuel system etc. In other words, it's a huge, expensive and time consuming project.

What exactly do you want out of this deal?