Which Oil AFTER Initial Break In?

[Ranger16]

10W30 Rotella with a bottle of ZDDP Plus.

 

[CompSyn]

Rotella used to be good for Zinc content. They have changed the formula as of a year or two ago.

This is one of the latest Rotellas

Shell Rotella T5 10W-30 API CK-4

PHOSPHORUS-----1020
ZINC------------1167

TESTED DATE: 4/12/17

LINK: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u...48/Shell_Rotella_T5_10W-30_***API#Post4377748

This is adequate for many street/strip applications and no need for extra additives. Remember, during the 1950s and 60s and 70s, API set Zinc recommendations at 1000-1200ppm, e.g., API SC, SD, SE

Buy it at Walmart for $16.47 Gal. (-) $5.00 dollar Shell Rebate = One of the better values going IMO.

 

[GetX'd]

Lucas Racing Oil - made for classic cars. High zinc 10/40.

 

[ykf7b0]

I'm second guessing my choice of Brad Penn Break In oil for the initial break in after learning of the low zinc and phosphorus count compared to many other brands. Lucas Break In Oil #10631 has the highest zinc and phosphorus content offered. Am I paranoid or should I make the switch?

 

[khryslerkid]

I'm second guessing my choice of Brad Penn Break In oil for the initial break in after learning of the low zinc and phosphorus count compared to many other brands. Lucas Break In Oil #10631 has the highest zinc and phosphorus content offered. Am I paranoid or should I make the switch?

Bran Penn is a tried and proven oil. It used to be Kendall. Now they have change the name to Penn Grade. I contacted them and the formula hasn't changed.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/brad-penn-fyi.134065/#post-910715918

The only problem with Brad Penn is it isn't always readily available for some. As far as the oil itself, it's formulated for just what it does and has worked for years.

For the ones that are adding ZDDP additives to oil that already has it, it could do more harm than good. Too much isn't a good thing. These oils are specially formulated and adding additives will change the chemical makeup of what was intended.

 

[Ranger16]

This is one of the latest Rotellas

Shell Rotella T5 10W-30 API CK-4

PHOSPHORUS-----1020
ZINC------------1167

TESTED DATE: 4/12/17

LINK: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u...48/Shell_Rotella_T5_10W-30_***API#Post4377748

This is adequate for many street/strip applications and no need for extra additives. Remember, during the 1950s and 60s and 70s, API set Zinc recommendations at 1000-1200ppm, e.g., API SC, SD, SE

Buy it at Walmart for $16.47 Gal. (-) $5.00 dollar Shell Rebate = One of the better values going IMO.

WOW! That's great to hear. Maybe the bottle of ZDDP Plus I add is too much zinc.

 

[ykf7b0]

Brad Penn Break In Oil 30wt..... Zinc 1067
Lucas Break In Oil 30wt............ Zinc 3600

The first 5 minutes are the most critical for flat tappet cams and all hydraulic cam manufactures stress the importance of zinc and plenty of it. This oil will be only used for a total of 20 minutes during the initial break in process. Now you see why I'm second guessing the Brad Penn/Penn Grade for my initial break in. I don't have the phosphorus numbers to post.

 

[5.7 hemi]

You could add a bottle of Comp break in additive.

 

[khryslerkid]

You could add a bottle of Comp break in additive.

Talking with Penn Grade, formerly Brad Penn, he strongly suggested not to add any. It's formulated the way it is for a reason.

 

[ykf7b0]

Brad Penn/Penn Grade states that additives to their Break In Oil is counterproductive.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

I always use Joe Gibbs oil for break in on flat tappets. Currently I run Brad penn in the roadrunner but I also broke that in on JG driven.

 

[ykf7b0]

Talking with Penn Grade, formerly Brad Penn, he strongly suggested not to add any. It's formulated the way it is for a reason.

I agree there has to be a reason but I wonder what the reason could be. Lunati, Comp Cams, and Howards Cams all told me it's all about the zinc. Lucas tops the zinc-ometer but Penn is really down on the list with their Break In Oil.

 

[khryslerkid]

I agree there has to be a reason but I wonder what the reason could be. Lunati, Comp Cams, and Howards Cams all told me it's all about the zinc. Lucas tops the zinc-ometer but Penn is really down on the list with their Break In Oil.

I contacted Penn Grade for some answers. I talked to Ken, (Manager of Technical Services) Give him a call 1-800 -645-5823. They'll put you in contact with him. He carries his cell phone and will take the time to answer any questions. He was at a meeting when I called and he still took the time.

http://redirect.viglink.com/?format...Forum&txt=https://www.penngrade.com/about-us/

I've never heard of anyone ever having a problem with their break-in useing this oil.

 

[ykf7b0]

I will give them/him a call when I can. Thanks!

 

[CompSyn]

For what it's worth, below is a cut-and-paste from my e-mail correspondence with Tom Schaefer, retired Vice President of sales and marketing for Hatco Division, Chemtura Corporation, a producer and marketer of specialty chemicals including synthetic lubricants.

During the years of flat tappet engines and no government regulations, most engine oils as I recall contained about 1,100 to 1,300 ppms of zinc from ZDDP. The ZDDP played a dual role, serving as an anti-wear and an anti-oxidant additive. It can be argued that with the higher levels of ashless anti-oxidants contained in modern oils, less ZDDP would be needed for wear control alone. That said, highly loaded springs in high performance engines may require more.

The optimum level of ZDDP will vary with engine design and driving patterns. There is such a thing as too much ZDDP as it can cause deposits, but where that maximum level lies again is engine/driving dependent. If I had a high performance flat tappet engine I would probably boost the zinc to about 1,600 ppms, but as I mentioned before this is just an opinion and not based in science. There are no special blending methods and the ZDDP can be cold blended so long as it goes into solution (no phase separation or haze). Also keep in mind there are many different kinds of ZDDP with different activation temperatures and oil retention properties, so the effectiveness of an unknown ZDDP can vary.

In general, if I trust the formulator, I trust his formula, and don't mess with it. Of course this only applies if I know the formulator designed the formulation with my engine and driving in mind. If he was influenced by other factors that may be irrelevant to me, such as fuel efficiency or emissions, then a little tweaking may be justified. I would only add an additive to my oil if I understood the oil, believed it had a specific deficiency, and felt confident my addition would fix or enhance it. Since I only drive consumer cars and use premium synthetic oils, I have not used aftermarket additives.

Motor oils are carefully balance by the formulator/manufacturer and tested to verify compliance with appropriate specifications. Adding aftermarket additives to these oils may upset this balance and the results may be unpredictable. If you trust the technology of the manufacturer, then it would be prudent to leave his formulation alone.

That said, there are some exceptions. Oil manufacturers are influenced by other factors than strictly engine performance, such as the laws governing fuel economy (CAFE) and emissions (catalytic converter). These factors have resulted in thinner oils with less ZDDP anti-wear additive. The engine manufacturers have gone to great lengths to assure that these SM oils continue to provide adequate protection for the average engine driven under average conditions, but may fall short for some engines or some drivers.

There have been many credible reports of excessive camshaft wear using SM oils in high performance engines, especially those having flat tappets and highly loaded springs. I don't have any personal experience with these engines but have heard enough to believe this problem may exist and is cured with additional ZDDP. Hence if I had such an engine I would boost the ZDDP and not take a chance. Regarding adverse effects from having too much ZDDP, I would not be concerned with doses up to say 1,600 ppm Zn since high dose ZDDP oils have been in the market for many years. This is just an opinion and not based in science. How much is too much I honestly don't know, but I imagine at some point excessive amounts may lead to deposits or interference with other additives. I would think, based on history, that ZDDP is one of the safer additives for increasing the dosage, especially if the formulation was designed around the higher ZDDP dose.

In the past some motor oils contained Molybdenum Disulfide which was a dispersed solid that had a tendency to fall out of suspension. The Moly you see in modern oils is an organic compound that is fully dissolved in the oil and does not fall out.

 

[threewood]

I'm second guessing my choice of Brad Penn Break In oil for the initial break in after learning of the low zinc and phosphorus count compared to many other brands. Lucas Break In Oil #10631 has the highest zinc and phosphorus content offered. Am I paranoid or should I make the switch?

You're paranoid. Too much can be bad too. Check out this link where a bunch of oils are tested for wear protection.......
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthr...nds-offer-the-best-protection-***Good-read***

 

[Ranger16]

For what it's worth, below is a cut-and-paste from my e-mail correspondence with Tom Schaefer, retired Vice President of sales and marketing for Hatco Division, Chemtura Corporation, a producer and marketer of specialty chemicals including synthetic lubricants.

Good read, thanks for posting, but that leads me to another question. I use ZDDP Plus, but I have never been able to find any info on exactly how much that little bottle is supposed to raise the zinc level in PPM.

EDIT:
I think maybe I found it.
https://zddplus.com/2013/11/zddplustm-tech-brief-7-oil-additive-dosing-and-dilution/

 

[khryslerkid]

Good read, thanks for posting, but that leads me to another question. I use ZDDP Plus, but I have never been able to find any info on exactly how much that little bottle is supposed to raise the zinc level in PPM.

EDIT:
I think maybe I found it.
https://zddplus.com/2013/11/zddplustm-tech-brief-7-oil-additive-dosing-and-dilution/

Too many numbers for me. I get it for the most part but I'll leave it up to the repitical chemists to make up the correct amount in their oils and not have to figure it out for myself.

All good info with the last several posts with links

 

[CompSyn]

You're paranoid. Too much can be bad too. Check out this link where a bunch of oils are tested for wear protection.......
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthr...nds-offer-the-best-protection-***Good-read***

While an interesting read, many would be hesitant to make such testing in to the final word. Laboratory conditions bench tests simply cannot take the place of real engine tear down and wear inspection. That said, the currently used and accepted test method for measuring average cam wear is Sequence IVA Test Method ASTM D6891.

The original cited link to speedtalk no longer exists. But from what others have said about the Rat540 tests is that:

"he used ASTM D 2782, the Standard Test Method for Measurement of Extreme-Pressure Properties of Lubricating Fluids (Timken Method)"

And

"did not precisely follow what he considered as the useless ASTM D 2782 standard."

So what we really have is some carefully crafted non-scientific, non-standardized information that is at best a "good read".

 

[ykf7b0]

I spoke with both Ken at Brad Penn/Penn Grade and a tech (forgot his name) from Lucas today. Ken says their oil has lower zinc content because it has a perfect balance of ingredients and too much zinc can hinder the break in process. Lucas tech says his oil is designed for that first 20 minutes and especially the first 5 and that his oil is balanced with other additives as well to ensure proper flat tappet cam break in. Both techs had great arguments for their products and represented their companies well. I also spoke with a Lunati Cams tech and he says go with the higher zinc Lucas. I personally don't think a person could go wrong with either brand as both have exceptional reviews.