Which SS leaf springs are 66-67 B Body guys using?

[Dan64]

I'd sure try the 002/003 set. The set I patterned off mid '70's 002/003 using my stock '65 main leaf worked perfectly in my '65 Coronet 10.60 - 10.70 car 3450# w/me. Car left level w/4-6" air for about a car length. Working to get my Satellite to that point.

Should i add any extra clamps to front or rear of spring if using caltracks?.

 

[rmchrgr]

Should i add any extra clamps to front or rear of spring if using caltracks?.

No.

Caltracs use a a mono (single) leaf spring made of fiberglass so the only thing that is clamped together are the front and rear sections of the spring that overlap.

There is a hiem-jointed tubular bar mounted between the front hanger and spring perch which stiffens the front section and also serves to adjust length/preload.

As mentioned in a previous post, there are usually two holes in the Caltrac front hangers to adjust the bar position up or down.

 

[rmchrgr]

Should i add any extra clamps to front or rear of spring if using caltracks?.

Or...are you asking because you're trying to use regular multi-leaf leaf springs with Caltracs? If that's the case, why? There's kind of no point, you'd be limiting the adjustments and also defeating one of the main purposes of Caltracs which is to eliminate the need to clamp the front section.

Some guys have done it but I'm sure what the reasoning is other than a dislike or misunderstanding of the fiberglass mono spring. Or, what's more likely is not wanting to spend the couple hundred bucks to use the parts the system was designed for.

 

[66Satellite47]

If you decide on the CalTracs, I'd get their split mono leaf. Take advantage of the lighter weight. And no idea what standard leaf setup would work.

 

[Dan64]

Or...are you asking because you're trying to use regular multi-leaf leaf springs with Caltracs? If that's the case, why? There's kind of no point, you'd be limiting the adjustments and also defeating one of the main purposes of Caltracs which is to eliminate the need to clamp the front section.

Some guys have done it but I'm sure what the reasoning is other than a dislike or misunderstanding of the fiberglass mono spring. Or, what's more likely is not wanting to spend the couple hundred bucks to use the parts the system was designed for.

On the Calvert racing website it has a pic of cal tracks with oem spring pack,actually the pic is right under the pic that you posted so i have some confusion as to how cal tracks should only be used with mono leaf springs. Cal tracks so they don't have to buy spring clamps ,i don't understand.

 

[Dan64]

If you decide on the CalTracs, I'd get their split mono leaf. Take advantage of the lighter weight. And no idea what standard leaf setup would work.

I got the cal tracks when i thought i was going to run mono's ,now i'm not sure. I did have some confusion about cal tracks with ss spring and cal tracks with standard oem spring packs . I guess with the thicker main spring in the ss springs the cal tracks can cause porpoising problems as to where this is not an issue with oem springs .Guess i have to decide ss springs or mono's w/cal tracks.. Thanks for your input.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

The issue that the caltrac system addresses is axel wrap. By controlling the wrap the tire will plant he tire better with good shock control. When the back of the car comes up like that it has an effect on the pinion angle. Again,,,,better control,,better 60 ft and adjustable shocks is part of YOU controlling the actions.

 

[Cranky]

Need to know the cars weight plus what the front end weighs vs the rear. It's also good to know what the 'corner' weights are no matter what the suspension system is. From experience, the CT's don't seem to like front end heavy cars but it's been several years since messing with them so maybe they are different now. It was probably 10 years ago that a buddy and I did a 3550 lb nose heavy Challenger and we could never get the CT's to hook but once we stuck on ladders, it was a different story. Ended up running low 9's with a small shot of the goofy gas and 10.0 without it and it became more consistent with the ladders....

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I would think if it hooked with a LB it should be able to hook with the Calz......The shock change is what made the difference.
I have not hit the scales but I know I'm nose heavy!

 

[383man]

General question to those that run SS springs. I have a 64' Polara that i'm building for a street heavy/ strip ready car. I see weight numbers all over the place for these 64 Polaras and since my car is not at a point where i can drive it to get it weighed i have no idea what the actual weight is. Car will be appr. 200lbs lighter than stock ( off the front with aluminum heads,intake RMS front end). So heres the question are 002/003 springs that came with this roller too light?. Do i need 456/457 springs or just try it and see. If there is no way the 022/003 springs will work i would rather which them now during the build.

I knew a guy who ran the 002 & 003 springs on his 63 and they worked fine for him. My 63 weighs just over 3700 lbs without me and I use the 3400 lb springs which work fine for me. Ron

 

[Dan64]

I knew a guy who ran the 002 & 003 springs on his 63 and they worked fine for him. My 63 weighs just over 3700 lbs without me and I use the 3400 lb springs which work fine for me. Ron

Did you or the guy running 002/003 springs add any clamps to your ss springs?.

 

[rmchrgr]

On the Calvert racing website it has a pic of cal tracks with oem spring pack,actually the pic is right under the pic that you posted so i have some confusion as to how cal tracks should only be used with mono leaf springs. Cal tracks so they don't have to buy spring clamps ,i don't understand.

I see you changed your post but just so you know, I wasn't being snarky. My intent was just to point out that there is always going to be those people who "do it their own way" and think they know how to make their junk work better than say the guy who designed one of the more successful racing products to come out in the last 30 years. Not saying that's you but by using the parts that allow the system to perform optimally you eliminate any guessing. What's the point of tying to use a band aid device (Caltracs) on a compromised passenger car component (leaf springs) in a half-assed manner? Do you put half a band aid on a cut?

Like most all components of a passenger car, leaf springs are a compromise between some level of performance and passenger comfort. Compromised parts will always limit performance to some degree no matter what you do to mitigate it. Until you replace the compromised part with a "race only" piece, you're fighting an uphill battle. Some guys are good at winning the battle but most, me included, would rather pay the man, use the right parts and move on to the next thing.

Leaf springs are literally ancient technology, no racer in his/her right mind would choose to use them on a dedicated race car. Case in point - if NHRA stock eliminator guys could use a 4 link, they would, just the same as they would use a huge solid roller cam over a factory lift solid or hydraulic flat tappet cam or a two-circuit Dominator over a Thermoquad. Class racers have to run the same type of chassis components that came on the car from the factory but since they are now allowed to use Caltracs, they'd be putting themselves at a disadvantage if they didn't run them.

But that's always the street/strip car conundrum. Stock eliminator cars are generally dedicated race cars so you can't really compare them to a street machine. Putting a 4 link in a unit body requires fairly major surgery/fab work and effectively puts an to end to most street driving due to the lack of lateral flexibility. Probably a safe bet that most guys here don't want to get into that scenario. So where does that leave the majority of muscle car dudes who like to race but don't want a dedicated race car? Leaf springs or some variation of such...

Incidentally, the Calvert system was developed using all sorts of different springs but the best results came from the split-mono arrangement. Can multi-leaf springs be used? Sure. Will they yield the best results? No.

Here's a statement from John Calvert himself.
...“In regards to the leaf spring itself, we’ve tried many different combinations over the years — multi-leaf, multi-leaf with an added thick leaf, multi-leaf with very thick leaves, multi-leaf with only one back leaf (suspend the car with coil over shocks), mono-leaf, parabolic mono-leaf, and split mono-leaf. The latter is our current preference,” Calvert says."

So, is it worth spending the $400 or so on the Caltrac hardware without shelling out the coin for the split-mono leaf springs? In my opinion, not really. If you think the system is too expensive for what it is, perhaps that's true. There are plenty of guys out there who are sorta fast on Super Stock springs but they could probably be a little faster with the proven band aid device working as designed.

Don't mean to piss anyone off here, nor do I work for Calvert, just giving an opinion, take it for what its worth. Leaf springs have come a long way and work just fine for most applications well into the 9s and beyond. I don't ever see myself in a car with something other than leaf springs so I'm there with ya. All I'm saying is that if you had the choice, you'd probably want to take advantage of using whatever thing gets the car down the track the quickest.

 

[Dan64]

^^^ And i see you changed your stance on the issue also,now they can be run with multi spring packs?. My car is a street/street car ,so yes ,it will be one big compromise as they all are. Like everyone else i'm just trying to figure out what works for me by asking guys that have been there and done that AND know how to relay info without being condescending and yes, snarky.

 

[33 IMP]

I would think if it hooked with a LB it should be able to hook with the Calz......The shock change is what made the difference.
I have not hit the scales but I know I'm nose heavy!

View attachment 828296

Doesn't look nose heavy to me. Looks like zero front end weight. Lol

 

[rmchrgr]

^^^ And i see you changed your stance on the issue also,now they can be run with multi spring packs?. My car is a street/street car ,so yes ,it will be one big compromise as they all are. Like everyone else i'm just trying to figure out what works for me by asking guys that have been there and done that AND know how to relay info without being condescending and yes, snarky.

Can you run multi spring packs with Caltracs? Sure, why not? Do you need to clamp the front section if you run this arrangement? I would say no because the Calvert link bar takes care of that but maybe that’s a question for Calvert.

I have Caltracs with split monos on my small block Duster. I’ve probably street driven it more than I’ve raced it but either way, they seem to work well. After installing them and taking it to the track, I didn’t go backwards so at a minimum the system was working at least as well as the S/S springs.

I bought the complete system including shocks. Easy to install and made well. I never considered using my existing springs with it. The weight savings was pretty significant since I was able to ditch the super long U bolts, OE shock plates and spring hangers and the hardware that goes with it.

At the track I’ve only messed with the shock settings, not the link bar. With my old combo the 60 foots were 1.7x which is no great but mostly par for the course at 12.0-11.9xx, 11-112 mph. I don’t have any recent data after I built my 416,
and put a new converter behind it.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Ya know,,,,if you can get the rear wheels to turn hard enough air under the front tires is the by-product.That's why I don't use more than 6lbs of boost cause I'm Sceeeeeeeerd I won't be able to see the pavement.
Seriously Rmchgr's explaination hits it right on the head and he is NOT known to be a snarky guy but rather knowledgeable of the facts.Don't take offence Dana as he is like SGT Friday,,,,,just the facts.
When I switched to the cals many moons ago my 60 ft dropped from the low 1.5s to high 1.4s and became very consistant.With the SS springs the consistency was NOT there and sometimes it would hook and sometimes would spin.Now I have tuned myself to the low 1.4s and craced 1.3 a few times! I could have went to a ladder bar but I only get to the track 3 or 4 time a year and mostly street drive so I think it is the best compromise!
No matter which way you go a GOOD adjustable shock is critical!, if you want to bracket race it's all about consistency even if your in the 13's!!!

 

[Darter6]

Dan64. I see you asked about extra clamps on the SS springs. I have never used any extra. In fact way long ago (1976) we used to remove the rear clamps after the axle. At launch they would open up like jaws and the thought was it help plant the tires better.Why ? because we would do what the big boys at Direct Connection would tell us.Also the debate about snubbers and Super Stock springs. We were also told to remove the snubber. Now these were the days before any track prep,hell we didn't even know anything about reaction time either. Photo from 1977 002/003 springs 2987 LBS. Completely gutted with fiberglass front end. Back then I weighed 135 lbs !

 

[rmchrgr]

 

[66Satellite47]

I think I concur with most of what post #32 says. Leaf springs are not the optimal drag race system. If you choose them, understand how a Mopar spring package works. Clamping the front segment at several locations makes sense, clamps on the rear halve takes some experimentation with the shocks you use. As said the no clamp rear does not work well, too, too much lift. The concept of CalTracs is that the front bar eliminates the need for the heavily biased front halve of Mopar SS springs. The CalTrac adjustability allows for driver/passenger side to side bias control to let the car leave level (difference between left & right side on SS springs). The mono leaf deal is MUCH lighter, ladder bars probably work better, 4 bars are great once you get them adjusted & track conditions stay the same. I'd try 002/003 if you got them & get good adjustable shocks.
Also with the correct spring package & shocks, pinion snubber is not needed, in fact for drag racing I would never use one.

 

[Dan64]

Dan64. I see you asked about extra clamps on the SS springs. I have never used any extra. In fact way long ago (1976) we used to remove the rear clamps after the axle. At launch they would open up like jaws and the thought was it help plant the tires better.Why ? because we would do what the big boys at Direct Connection would tell us.Also the debate about snubbers and Super Stock springs. We were also told to remove the snubber. Now these were the days before any track prep,hell we didn't even know anything about reaction time either. Photo from 1977 002/003 springs 2987 LBS. Completely gutted with fiberglass front end. Back then I weighed 135 lbs !View attachment 828661

I think I concur with most of what post #32 says. Leaf springs are not the optimal drag race system. If you choose them, understand how a Mopar spring package works. Clamping the front segment at several locations makes sense, clamps on the rear halve takes some experimentation with the shocks you use. As said the no clamp rear does not work well, too, too much lift. The concept of CalTracs is that the front bar eliminates the need for the heavily biased front halve of Mopar SS springs. The CalTrac adjustability allows for driver/passenger side to side bias control to let the car leave level (difference between left & right side on SS springs). The mono leaf deal is MUCH lighter, ladder bars probably work better, 4 bars are great once you get them adjusted & track conditions stay the same. I'd try 002/003 if you got them & get good adjustable shocks.
Also with the correct spring package & shocks, pinion snubber is not needed, in fact for drag racing I would never use one.

Guys thanks for the info. I knew that there was talk about putting extra front clamps on and i figured that was to stop the front segment from forming an "s" bend on launch and i had heard something about the removal of the rear clamps to let the springs lift more but i really couldn't wrap my head around that . The 002/003 springs i got have a shorter from segment ,as you know ,to help with the wrap up but what i didn't know was that the main leaf is also thicker and doesn't play well with cal tracks. I would love to see a video of a launch on a car with ss springs and cal tracks to see exactly whats doing what in slow motion.I also wish the guy that sold me the cal tracks had said something as he know i was running 002/003 springs,hell i even bought new bushings for the shackles from him and we had to go through the whole b body bushing size and the a body bushing size of the 002/003 's. This is far from my first car build but i have never used ss springs or cal tracks for that matter.Thanks for the great info. Are mono leaves any good on the street ?.Can you get them 2" over as i have a 30" tall cheater slick that i'm running?.