Winter mix fuel, anybody know the diff?

[747mopar]

I've got a couple new problems with the charger. It's now stalling directly after it fires once it's been fully warmed up like after filling up for gas. It started doing this at the very end of fall, with a nice weekend here in Ohio I took it out for fresh fuel and to run it for a bit and same thing. The timing has me curious if the winter mix fuel may have a lower boiling point because it ran flawlessly all summer? It also developed a starter issue, cranks hard now but runs perfectly after firing?

I'm going to get my lift finished up before digging in but thought trying a different fuel might be a first step. As far as the starter goes I'll check connections, etc but the voltmeter showed 14volts so it's not the battery. I hate how these damn cars can't just stay running perfect!

 

[747mopar]

Thought I should add this car has an msd ignition with no ballast so it's not that.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Well, I'm not convinced that it's the fuel, but winter gasoline has more "volatile" components...which means it would evaporate faster than summer gasoline (or at least parts of it would). Volatility is not directly related to boiling point.... BUT they are somewhat related.

Your problem sounds like either the starter is getting hot (high resistance, turns slowly when hot) or vapor lock maybe, which seems odd in the winter.

After you've warmed up the car, turned it off & are trying to re-start it....can you put your hand on the carburetor and hold it there? When my 'runner would vapor lock, I couldn't hold my hand on the carburetors. OR, maybe you've got your timing on the ragged edge of too far advanced?

 

[Ranger16]

Have you checked the choke? Maybe it needs an adjustment. They are rather temperamental.

 

[moper]

In CT it's 10% ethanol and is in the pumps from November 1 to the end of February.

 

[moparwacko]

Gonna need more details:
Carb? Do you have a spacer?
Fuel pump? New filters?
Timing?
Do you have access to Ethanol free gas?
Pure-gas.org has listings by state.
Have a source for Aviation fuel?
What type starter?
Etc.
Know it's a lot but all would help.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Winter blend has a higher vapor pressure. More normal butane is blended in the mix. It flashes easier for cold starts. It will also vapor lock much easier on a warm day in your carbureted bb mopar

 

[Cranky]

Doesn't sound like it's the gas either but here's a link that explains it pretty good imo....
http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...blend-gasoline-whats-the-difference-13747431/

 

[oldbee]

Ranger always has a thing for chokes, lol. But a lot of times that is a valid thought; I'm going with crappy fuel. Once I get a choke/choke pull off set right,it's usually good year round.

 

[oldbee]

Whoops, always defer to your elder. Ranger has me by a year,LOL..

 

[747mopar]

Gonna need more details:
Carb? Do you have a spacer?
Fuel pump? New filters?
Timing?
Do you have access to Ethanol free gas?
Pure-gas.org has listings by state.
Have a source for Aviation fuel?
What type starter?
Etc.
Know it's a lot but all would help.

Carb..... Quickfuel Q750 no choke

1/2 phenolic spacer and all lines close to heat are insulated.

Fuel pump.... Carter mechanical (7.5 psi).

Filter was replaced last summer.

Timing is 20 initial advanced to 30 on startup and 40 total.

Starter is factory thanks to the T56 bellhousing.

I've ran this starter for 2 years with zero problems, the carb all last summer with nothing changing but the fuel? The starter could be toast it just seams really strange to have what seams like heat related issues in the winter when it performed flawlessly in 100 degree temps? The choke delete does surprisingly well at starting in cold temps, the problems only appear when it's thoroughly warmed up (180 degrees).

I've got a lot of irons in the fire right now so it'll be awhile before I can tackle this and track it down, just wanted some input on fuel until then. Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted.

 

[Glenwood]

Starter may not like the cold now. Resistance increases as it gets colder.

 

[oldbee]

Don't think that BB's like/need more than 35deg total timing; dial down the initial a little?

 

[moparwacko]

I'm no Rocket Scientist, and we're probably all better off for that, but do you have access to an ammeter? With the info supplied, I'm leaning towards starter.
Cranks good when cold, slow when hot? May be the electrical motor part of the starter (high resistance). I'd have to look it up in a FSM to get proper ohm reading.
As far as the winter fuel issue, I'd be guessing. I would certainly get ethanol free in that thing to eliminate one aspect.

 

[Glenwood]

I read it that the starter struggles when cold and seems fine after things warmed up, unless I'm reading it wrong. If wiring and connection points, including the grounds are ruled out, the starter sound like it is on its way out imo.

My Ram had very similar issues by starting and ran fine when cold then stall. It turned out to be the crank position sensor and the coil in two separate incidents.

 

[747mopar]

I'm no Rocket Scientist, and we're probably all better off for that, but do you have access to an ammeter? With the info supplied, I'm leaning towards starter.
Cranks good when cold, slow when hot? May be the electrical motor part of the starter (high resistance). I'd have to look it up in a FSM to get proper ohm reading.
As far as the winter fuel issue, I'd be guessing. I would certainly get ethanol free in that thing to eliminate one aspect.

I'm guessing your right. I have an ammeter so I'll look into it. I'm going to see if I can get a mini starter back on it if it's possible too. The bellhousing to mount a Viper T56 behind these things mounts the starter in a way that make a mini no longer fit... sounds crazy since their smaller but they're fatter on the side that faces the block making them a no go but not by much.

 

[747mopar]

I read it that the starter struggles when cold and seems fine after things warmed up, unless I'm reading it wrong. If wiring and connection points, including the grounds are ruled out, the starter sound like it is on its way out imo.

My Ram had very similar issues but it turned out to be the crank position sensor and the coil.

It seamed to struggle regardless of temps.

 

[lewtot184]

for what it's worth; my 65 coronet, with a 440 in it, definitely runs different with winter blend fuel. usually it's no more that a tweak on the idle mixture screws.

 

[Ranger16]

Carb..... Quickfuel Q750 no choke

So much for my choke adjustment theory.

 

[747mopar]

Don't think that BB's like/need more than 35deg total timing; dial down the initial a little?

Every motor is different, this one loves it lol.

So much for my choke adjustment theory.

Lol, I was very skeptical about a choke delete but it starts just as well as he said it would. Not looking back.