Yankee Express RestoMod Project

[Kern Dog]

I do not have personal experience with the new bonding materials, but I have heard from a few people I trust that they are almost better and stronger than welding. They used this in the context of body panels though, I still have my doubts if you need to connect two edges of 1/4" plate steel!

I am considering the use of this stuff when I modify the outer wheel tubs in my Charger. For years I have dealt with tire rub due to the stupid design they used. I don't want to risk paint damage so the panel bonding is a great alternative.

I welded the patchwork in "Jigsaw" because the paint is ugly at this point.

 

[Photon440]

Can you use the originals? https://www.ebay.com/i/143462192672?chn=ps

 

[Brandy]

Can you use the originals? https://www.ebay.com/i/143462192672?chn=ps

No, they look like gauges but are just flat dials stuck on a circuit board and controlled by a computer. Scroll back to post #1256 to see my cluster unit. I have now located the 4 1/2" speedo and tach. And a three gauge panel of mini gauges that are the
1 1/2" size I need, and can be taken out of that panel and used separately. But cannot locate a fuel gauge in 1 1/2" size, only 2". If I can source all analog, or GPS, gauges then I can use regular sending units. I may end up swapping the fuel gauge face plate from the Audi board into a 1 1/2" gauge body and marry up a 2" fuel gauge guts behind it to make it operate. We will see.

 

[Brandy]

Upon further inspection there's plenty of room for a tray within the deck framework without cutting too deep into any portion of it. The bigger issue is the different planes the surface has. It curves downward left to right, but, at a different rate at the rear (less) than the front. It also curves downward front to back edge at different rates all across the thing. So. The solution is to use the skin of the deck lid as the top surface of the spoiler. Now, HOW to get the pieces out of the deck lid while retaining the shapes? Almost need to cut the tray pockets into the frame & slide steel rod into the space to tack to the skin underside, as it sits before being disturbed so that once cut it will not flex into an unusable mess.

OR...lol...I COULD lay down aluminum foil on the deck lid surface where the spoiler is outlined and lay fiberglass right on it to make it take the shape in situ. After a few layers I could add in a pre bent/formed wire mesh ( to get the stiffness and to retain the slight raised portion of the deck lid center contour lines running front to back) and more layers. It would be stiff enough once dry and I could also glass in a couple of plates with all thread in the correct places to bolt up to the lift platforms.
Trim and sand, filler & sand. paint. Should end up about 3/16" to 1/4" thick and in the correct shape/ contours. Then it's a matter of getting the tray together with the actuator arms coming thru. Those pockets at each end could be sliced off the Audi aluminum frame and affixed to the underside of the tray with body panel epoxy. The portions on the quarters is a snap. The step down from the surface to the top of the gutter is 3/8". Simply slice the surface and lay in an panel butting the end right on to the remaining edge top of the gutter top lip and go out from there under the quarter surface. It would be a smooth run right down into the gutter for water.

 

[Brandy]

 

[Hey-O]

That's the way I see it too. I'm still thinking about the spoiler.

 

[Brandy]

There's a few ways to go...

 

[Brandy]

 

[Brandy]

I'm not cutting anything until I have all of the parts here and figure out what is what. Visualize exactly how it's going to go together. Work out the bugs...bench test the mechanism to see exactly how the spoiler will move, distances up and tilting.

 

[Brandy]

I had a thought about the tray...

If I were to fabricate the entire tray and have it run flat across the bottom of it then I would need the top edges to match the bow in the lid. Easier that way than to try to build a curved bottom tray...
The arms could be adjusted to position the spoiler correctly, leaving a deeper space under the middle than the ends. I could install rubber blocks for the spoiler body to rest on when down. Along with the bumpers on each end. Giving it support at four places across the width..and a soft landing upon closing. I'm going to need a 64 inch long strip of 18GA x 6" tall to form a pattern of the lid cross section shape/ contours. Then, set that on a flat surface and see where that leaves me as far as how far down a flat tray would hang inside the trunk. 3/8" at each end..but what in the middle? an inch and 1/4"?

 

[HawkRod]

So just to brainstorm the spoiler:

What if you laid a fiberglass FORM on top of the existing trunk lid AND quarter panel? Once that form sets up, the underside of the form is exactly the shape and contours of what the top of the spoiler should be. Then make an edge around the form where you want the edge of the spoiler. The fill that form with fiberglass, some strengthening material, etc, and build your spoiler in fiberglass.

Once you have the spoiler trace the shape back in the metal, and then cut inside that line enough to form an edge for the spoiler to sit in.

Hope some of that description makes sense...

Hawk

 

[Brandy]

So just to brainstorm the spoiler:

What if you laid a fiberglass FORM on top of the existing trunk lid AND quarter panel? Once that form sets up, the underside of the form is exactly the shape and contours of what the top of the spoiler should be. Then make an edge around the form where you want the edge of the spoiler. The fill that form with fiberglass, some strengthening material, etc, and build your spoiler in fiberglass.

Once you have the spoiler trace the shape back in the metal, and then cut inside that line enough to form an edge for the spoiler to sit in.

Hope some of that description makes sense...

Hawk

Great minds Hawk! see post #1264.....

 

[HawkRod]

Great minds Hawk! see post #1264.....

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood your 1264 post. I thought with that you would build up the fiberglass on top of the panel and essentially build the spoiler on top of the panel. That's the way I understood it so I was suggesting just building fiberglass on top to build the form rather than the spoiler.

Regardless, hopefully all this can mix in your mind and let you come up with a good way to do it. You have always done some neat stuff in the past so I have no doubt you'll figure a clever way to do this too!

 

[Photon440]

Before any cutting, I would reinforce the bottom (inner) deck lid panel to make sure it doesn't get too flexible when the top skin is removed.

 

[Brandy]

Before any cutting, I would reinforce the bottom (inner) deck lid panel to make sure it doesn't get too flexible when the top skin is removed.

Oh, most definitely. I'll pull the trunk lid and do it first then mount it up and adjust the gaps before taking the lines over onto the quarters too. Has to line up.

 

[Brandy]

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood your 1264 post. I thought with that you would build up the fiberglass on top of the panel and essentially build the spoiler on top of the panel. That's the way I understood it so I was suggesting just building fiberglass on top to build the form rather than the spoiler.

Regardless, hopefully all this can mix in your mind and let you come up with a good way to do it. You have always done some neat stuff in the past so I have no doubt you'll figure a clever way to do this too!

I see what your saying Hawk. You're saying to construct a form from the lid & quarter portions and then ..say....gelcoat that and lay glass in it to make the spoiler itself. Ought to make the lid contour lines in the middle of the spoiler match perfectly that way too....good idea. Along the 62" length what sort of metal mesh, or rod, or wire etc. would you all say is the best to lay into the spoiler body and then bury it in glass, in order to get the best strength/stiffness for this long piece?

 

[HawkRod]

Along the 62" length what sort of metal mesh, or rod, or wire etc. would you all say is the best to lay into the spoiler body and then bury it in glass, in order to get the best strength/stiffness for this long piece?

I'm afraid I have had very limited experience laying fiberglass, so I am certainly not the right guy to recommend anything. I would think that a couple of stiff rods, bent to the approximate shape, and perhaps with metal plates welded between them where the spoiler would connect to the Audi lift mechanism would work. Having said that, I am talking out my a$$, so I'm sure others can recommend a good course of action.

 

[Photon440]

Fiberglass is very strong by itself, I wouldn't use any rods or structural steel. Metal mesh, when used, is usually to keep an initial shape (like a curved fender) before the resin hardens, but it isn't there for the strength. Properly laid, and with a high ratio of glass to resin, a 1/8" thick piece will be as strong as you could wish for. Pound for pound, it will outperform steel or aluminum for rigidity and shear strength. This is assuming common polyester resins; if you go all out and use epoxy resin then you'll have an even better product. If you're going to paint the finished product, it will look as good as metal. If you want the look of carbon fiber weave, you could use it for the outer later with fiberglass under it, using clear epoxy resin.

 

[Brandy]

Fiberglass is very strong by itself, I wouldn't use any rods or structural steel. Metal mesh, when used, is usually to keep an initial shape (like a curved fender) before the resin hardens, but it isn't there for the strength. Properly laid, and with a high ratio of glass to resin, a 1/8" thick piece will be as strong as you could wish for. Pound for pound, it will outperform steel or aluminum for rigidity and shear strength. This is assuming common polyester resins; if you go all out and use epoxy resin then you'll have an even better product. If you're going to paint the finished product, it will look as good as metal. If you want the look of carbon fiber weave, you could use it for the outer later with fiberglass under it, using clear epoxy resin.

"High ratio of glass to resin..." explain please..so more resin than glass, or the other way round? the spoiler will be body color so no carbon fiber. So put down aluminum foil. then a layer of epoxy resin, then a single sheet of glass imbedded into the resin, then resin, glass, resin , glass...etc. Yes? Does the glass need to be laid cross hatch or just 7" wide strips left to right till it's thick enough? Roller to imbed..finished item would be the spoiler, or, a form from which to make a spoiler? Thanks!

 

[Photon440]

You want more glass, less resin. Resin on it's own is brittle and not that strong, its purpose is to bond the glass together. Vacuum bagging is a good way to compress the substrate to squeeze out excess resin while it cures, but since you will have a nice flat surface, an air roller will press it together satisfactorily, any excess resin puddles on the surface can be blotted up with paper towels.

For the layers, you could use just glass matting, but I'm not sure of the actual design or thickness you have in mind. If thick enough, ideally you would use woven roving or fiberglass cloth sandwiched between matting above and below.

I'd make the finished product in one shot, no form or mold since you aren't needing to make multiple copies. Feel free to pm me.