Your 'Guide' to the 727/904 transmission

[Fran Blacker]

There is a gasket where access rear bearing snap ring. Small plate held on by 2 counter sunk phillips screws. It's a paper gasket, you can make one.

 

[Letank2]

Thank you for posting the Part schematic of the TF727, The Munroe manual does not really have a detailled part schematics with names. On a 85 Jeep grand wagonneer, when I pulled the valve body to R&R the shift shaft seal (the quick tool to do it from the outside could not bite into the seal, its biting thread is too dull), a cylinder dropped out, which I identified as the accumulator, per the posted schematics. I suspect that the O-ring equivalent is in need of replacement. Any good place to buy misc. bits. for the TF727.
Thank you

 

[66Satellite47]

Thank you for posting the Part schematic of the TF727, The Munroe manual does not really have a detailled part schematics with names. On a 85 Jeep grand wagonneer, when I pulled the valve body to R&R the shift shaft seal (the quick tool to do it from the outside could not bite into the seal, its biting thread is too dull), a cylinder dropped out, which I identified as the accumulator, per the posted schematics. I suspect that the O-ring equivalent is in need of replacement. Any good place to buy misc. bits. for the TF727.
Thank you

Is the trans still in the vehicle? Valve body removed from underneath? The accumulator is spring loaded & will drop out. If this is accurate, the sealing ring is fine, just push it back in. Line it up, push the valve body up into place, start a couple of the valve body attaching bolts & gently tighten, one in the accumulator area, one each front & rear. Don't force it.

 

[Mopar Manny]

Hi everybody, this is my first post here. I have a TF (A727) oil pump question. I'm no TF expert, but I had successfully rebuilt one several years ago. This one I'm working on now I had rebuilt several months ago and was just now getting ready to install it. I put the converter on only to discover that the oil pump gear/rotor is locked up. I have it lubed up with plenty of ATF, and I did check the pump/housing/gear/rotor to spec with a straight edge when assembling it. Not sure what went wrong but I need to pull it back out to figure it out.
My question is do I really need to take off the valve body and extension housing to get the pump out? Going by the factory manual and some videos that I have watched, the assembly/disassembly sequence is always to do the valve body, then extension housing, then the pump. But when I did the rebuild I don't recall anything that would actually interfere with the pump housing coming out. So I put my slide puller on the pump housing and it popped out away from the case about an inch pretty easley and then started to pull out the input shaft with it. Not sure what is holding it (sealing rings maybe?) but I don't want to force it. Anybody here ever pulled the pump housing out the front without taking the rest of the trans apart?
Thanks Much!
Manny

 

[66Satellite47]

The front pump comes out without taking other things apart. You need to tighten the front band all the way tight before tying to pull the pump out. Are you sure you have properly inserted the converter? That is sometimes very tricky. You need to rotate the converter slowly and feel a second "thump" which is the converter sliding all the way in. Sometimes it takes many tries to get the converter all the way in.

 

[Fran Blacker]

 

[wyrmrider]

looks like he pulled the pump without tighting the band
now what

 

[66Satellite47]

I think tighten the band, try again.

 

[Mopar Manny]

Hey Gents, Thanks for all the great help! Nice to get advice from somebody who's been there done that. I did get the converter seated in all the way and got the half inch from measurement from the face of the case. That's when I noticed the rotor wouldn't budge. The converter would rotate back and forth about 10 degrees and clunk on the square lugs on the rotor. I pulled the converter back off and tried to move the lugs with a scewdriver and they wouldn't budge. I'll tighten the band and try again to get the pump out. wyrmrider has me worried now though. I think I did pull the input shaft out about an inch before I caught it. As I mentioned its been a while since I assembled it, but I seem to recall a small washer that goes I believe on the shafts between the two clutch drums. If I remember right that washer controls the shaft endplay. So if I had pulled the two drums apart when pulling on the pump and that washer came off I will be headed for another pleasant surprise with this thing. I guess I will find out after I solve the rotor problem, get it back together and check the endplay.
Thanks Again
Manny

 

[Fran Blacker]

If you haven't pulled pump check end play first.

 

[8stackhemi]

RACEDODGE, FRAN & ALL...........WHAT GREAT READING & IMPORTANT INFORMATION!!! Thanks everyone! Scott

 

[Mopar Manny]

If you haven't pulled pump check end play first.

Hey Thanks Fran, I didn't think about that before I started pulling on the pump. I do know that I did check that after the initial rebuild though and it was in spec. Since it was never ran since rebuild I should be able to see if it is out whack after I get the pump figured out and put back in. I got side tracked on something else a few weeks ago then caught the flu last week so I haven't gotten any farther on this TF yet, but I'll post in the near future here on what I find that is locking up the rotor

 

[Mopar Manny]

Ah, now for the embarrassing truth. This is kind of a no brainer, but I will go ahead and post it just so the next Torqueflite newbe will know what to watch out for. The short version is that the new pump rotor set I bought (from the local Transtar) is only chamfered on one side. somehow I managed to take it out and put it back in with the non chamfered side down into the pump housing. Might have been some beer involved, as the pump install was signaling the much anticipated end of the project. Anyway, the non-chamfered side of the rotor jammed into the radius in the housing causing it to lockup. Luckily, it didn't seem to do any damage.
Take a look at the attached pics. The rotor on the left is OEM out of a 1977 727. It is chamfered on both sides although the chamfer on the right side of it is much bigger that than the one on the opposite side. The rotor in the center is chamfered equally on both sides. This rotor was in the trans when I tore it down. I don't know if it is OEM because the trans had been tampered with by AAMCO before I acquired it. The rotor on the right is the one I got from Transtar. Notice in the pic that it has a couple of dots on it kind of like the index dots on a timing gear set. I have no idea what the dots are for? The set came with no instructions. The dots are on the side with the chamfer so they would not be visible when dropped into the housing. Other than that the Transtar rotor set seems to be pretty good quality. A chamfer on the parting plane side would serve no purpose, the tolerance was good, and set was only $11.

 

[66Satellite47]

I'm sure the chamfer is allow easier insertion into the housing. No chamfer seems like production cost savings. No idea what the dots are for, except to match up the 2 sides?

 

[maxwedgechar]

So this has been mentioned before in this thread, the ’62, ’63 and some ‘64 cars with the inline trans filter. I believe it is also on the earlier cars. If you still have one on your car get new cooling lines. Take the damned thing off! Put a Dacron filter on with the TWO holes one for the rear pump. If you put on a deep pan DON’T use the adapter unless it’s for the two hole filter! If the inline filter is clogged you can’t keep ATF in the trans. It will pump right out the front pump/converter seal. MAX left me stranded on the side of the road before I figured it out! ATF coming out the front seal has plagued MAX for 30 years! My friend who worked on the trans 2 years ago made new lines and included the filter. And MAX STILL pumped fluid all over the place. I put in new lines and the world is a wonderful place!

 

[Mopar Manny]

Well guys I finally got around to installing my rebuilt 727 yesterday. I don't know where I went wrong with this one. Everything looked good when I was putting the trans together. The oil pump bore looked good and was in tolerance, also installed new gear and rotor. Checked all the drums with their new rings and clutches with compressed air and all seemed to work well, same with the servos. I put a quart of fluid in the remanufactured converter and 8 more quarts in the trans (the factory book called for 9.5 quarts total). I stepped away for about 20 minutes to get some gas and when I returned I noticed about a pint of fluid had leaked on the ground. The leak was coming from the base of the dipstick tube. I started it up and shifted through the gears to get the fluid circulating, but it kept leaking. Also it never went into gear. thinking it might be over full, I took the output fluid line off and stuck it in a can. the fluid pumped out very slowly. It took about 25 minutes idling in park for 2 quarts to come out. Meanwhile, it was still leaking at the base of the dipstick tube, so I shut it off and pulled the dipstick tube off and another 3 quarts gushed out. I seems that no fluid circulated within the trans at all.
Any thoughts ??

 

[Demonic]

Do a line pressure test. Sounds like the pump isn’t right.

 

[Brandy]

The pivot that the rear band lever and adjust screw pivot on is moving and allowing fluid past the o-ring that should be holding the fluid back. Pull the pan and adjust the rear band. In the FSM there are conflicting torque values for the rear band adjustment. In the actual procedure it states to tighten to 41 in-lbs. But in the back of the section, it notes the 727 and 999 are backed off from 72 in-lbs whereas the 904 gets backed off from 41 in-lbs. I'm inclined to think that 72 in-lbs is correct but some clarification would be great. Also be sure that the filter is on tight and not blocked.

 

[wyrmrider]

was your converter empty?
there is also tighten both bands till u cannot turn the driveshaft method
shift kit?

 

[Q-5 Addict]

Transmission number on left oil pan rail reads:
2801543 L 2519. That is it! No PK proceeding numbers or days production number after 2519. Per Govier book it indicates 67, 68 383 car. What does L mean? Thank you! My GTX has an August 68_build date (69 model year).