1965 Plymouth 2% A/FX cars

[fullmetaljacket]

I never realized the 2% cars didn't have vent windows! The windows look like Lexan.
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The pics of the High And The Mighty car appear to be/are two different bodies, you can tell by the front wheel opening. Seems probable the one with the red windows is a recreation.

Looking at the pic of the original H&M car at the track though, the front wheel openings look pretty much the same as the Ramchargers. I'd say you are correct in that it was likely a factory Hemi race car but definitelty not a 2%. They clearly benefited from "shared" factory info though.

So the four 2% Hemi cars were 1) Ramchargers, 2) Strickler/Jenkins, 3) Melrose Missle/Grove and 4) Golden Commandos?

From 1964 – WELCOME THE T- BOLT and RACE HEMI!

WHEEL BASE ALTERATIONS
"Later in the year Chrysler engineers twigged to the idea of moving the rear wheels fwd, which aided in weight transition and traction. They produced 4 factory 2% AWB (Altered Wheel Base ) cars for the Indy US Nats. 2% was the maximum allowable under FX rules. These cars never competed in S/S eliminations….but the new Hemi powered Dodges and Plymouths destroyed the 427 Comets and others in FX at Indy ……giving Ford motivation to develop a purpose-built race motor for 65…..and paving the way for something ‘funny’ to happen."

Correct as you named them. Yes, they were all constructed without vent windows and the (Plexiglas-Glass) windows were supposedly fixed in the closed position obviously. Some folklore is that they had aluminum rooster wheels and window mechanisms inside the aluminum doors, but once you remove the vent unit which doubles as a glass track, it removes the track system that enables the window pane to slide up and down. That surviving Ramcharger car is a beauty, but my absolute favorite was the Strickler/Jenkins car which IIRC is being restored. I believe the Commando car has been destroyed. Nothing is written in stone though.

 

[skicker]

Thx for all the info Lee...

Somewhere along the line I need to pick your brain about what some of the period correct aftermarket parts for my 65 would have been...

The bullchit backstory is that the car I have was raced around 67 so and then put away before I got it...

I talked to Jim Kramer several years ago at Carlisle and he said there were some low budget teams that ran wedge motors in home made AWB cars similar to mine...

That's kind of the build I'm trying to do...Nothing copying original cars and not using a Hemi...

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Thx for all the info Lee...

Somewhere along the line I need to pick your brain about what some of the period correct aftermarket parts for my 65 would have been...

The bullchit backstory is that the car I have was raced around 67 so and then put away before I got it...

I talked to Jim Kramer several years ago at Carlisle and he said there were some low budget teams that ran wedge motors in home made AWB cars similar to mine...

That's kind of the build I'm trying to do...Nothing copying original cars and not using a Hemi...

SKick.
Anytime.
Either at Carlisle early on before the crowds or later on over a campfire. From all of the photo's and stories, so much went on in a short order of time. Must have been amazing to be in the midst of all that experimentation and even from the outside looking in.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Looking for any information related to the 1965 Plymouth 2% A/FX cars built prior to the 10/15 A/FX cars. There were only 4 2% cars built in 1965 2 were dodges and 2 were Plymouths. the Plymouths were Golden Commandos and Melrose missile. The Dodges were Color me Gone and Ramchargers. I am mainly looking for info on the Plymouth as I hope to make my 1965 satellite similar in characteristics to these cars. I have read that Plymouths were not altered in the rear but the front wheels were moved forward 3 inches. What I need info on is the body, doors, interior, and windows?

1. Did They use fiberglass front ends or acid dipped steel front ends?

2. The 2% cars can be seen using sedan doors, how did the factory make the post that goes from the front of the quarter to the roof? What did they use?

3. Did they use a fiberglass Dash like they did in the 10/15 cars

4.did they use factory glass or lightweight glass for the front, rear, and quarter glass, if so what type of lightweight glass did they use?

I understand that the 2% AFX cars are a very under-researched topic but I'm really intrigued by them. If anyone has information or knows anyone that might, please let me know.

It may seem that with only four cars in 1964 and four more in '65, that there would not be much about to be read or said, but these cars were more sneakier than a Ninja in a Samurai's garden. In fact, they helped pave the way for some of the most effective practices in drag racing to this very day.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

It may seem that with only four cars in 1964 and four more in '65, that there would not be much about to be read or said, but these cars were more sneakier than a Ninja in a Samurai's garden. In fact, they helped pave the way for some of the most effective practices in drag racing to this very day.

Here's a look at an early 2%center with the Max Wedge scoop still in place. Ventless doors in clear view.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

In 2008 there was an All Hemi Reunion.It was a hell of a show!

 

[fullmetaljacket]

In 2008 there was an All Hemi Reunion.It was a hell of a show!

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Yeah, supposedly Landy beat out Chrysler and The Alexander Brothers to the punch with the funny wheel shuffle, but who knows if it was all happening at the same time. Thornton was allegedly penning ideas in late '63 leading into the '64 model run. Landy might have had the freedom and midnight ambitions, but Chrysler had the recourses and commissions.

 

[Jeff Peterson]

To add fuel to the speculation fire, I believe the "4-2%r's" were lightweight Wedge cars, repurposed.
I have era magazines that show the inner fenders that were torched to make clearace for Wedge headers, on Strickler's 2% HEMI car.
The "4" cars were at Pomona winter nats. in mid february, but did not run due to problems(Carter carbs?) making them months ahead of the first "assembly line" built Hemi cars, and due to the K member moved forward, motor mounts would have to be fabricated regardless of which K was used.
As far as the "4" Vs. Landy, he didn't even take delivery of the Hemi car 'til June, and not moving the axles 'til fall, makes his a more radical, but nonetheless later, than the Alexander Bros. built "4".

 

[fullmetaljacket]

To add fuel to the speculation fire, I believe the "4-2%r's" were lightweight Wedge cars, repurposed.
I have era magazines that show the inner fenders that were torched to make clearace for Wedge headers, on Strickler's 2% HEMI car.
The "4" cars were at Pomona winter nats. in mid february, but did not run due to problems(Carter carbs?) making them months ahead of the first "assembly line" built Hemi cars, and due to the K member moved forward, motor mounts would have to be fabricated regardless of which K was used.
As far as the "4" Vs. Landy, he didn't even take delivery of the Hemi car 'til June, and not moving the axles 'til fall, makes his a more radical, but nonetheless later, than the Alexander Bros. built "4".

Correct. They were aluminum front end Max Wedge cars converted to 2%. Supposedly in the fog of war, one was a steel nose car converted to aluminum front end sometime during 2% surgery.
The actual aluminum front end Max Wedge cars had no aluminum past the hood, scoop, various bumper brackets and fenders, but that was destined to change for the upcoming 1964 A864 Hemi head SS cars with the addition of aluminum doors and hinges to the overall package.
The '64 2% cars received aluminum doors and the hinges, but without the vent windows and one piece plexi side glass. The upcoming '64 A864 Hemi Super Stock cars would also have aluminum doors, but with functioning vent (standard thickness) windows and lightweight functioning Corning glass on the side. Fixed quarter windows also of the Corning pedigree. This is all speculative, but this possibly helps lead to the argument that the '64 2% cars were the very first recipients of aluminum doors that year.
I have somewhere a copy of the Chrysler proposal letter sent to the NHRA describing the 2% package and all its accessories. Now did all the special parts listed in that letter actually materialize and found their way into the cars? that is the million dollar question.
The '65 2% program is a whole other cold case because of the rule change for that year.

 

[stage3]

There are photos of the carbureted Hemi tests at Lions, where the comparison Maxie was basically a wash; IIRC, that was fixed with a switch to the larger Holleys.

makes 1 wonder what would have happened if those holleys made it onto the max wedge......

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Looking for any information related to the 1965 Plymouth 2% A/FX cars built prior to the 10/15 A/FX cars. There were only 4 2% cars built in 1965 2 were dodges and 2 were Plymouths. the Plymouths were Golden Commandos and Melrose missile. The Dodges were Color me Gone and Ramchargers. I am mainly looking for info on the Plymouth as I hope to make my 1965 satellite similar in characteristics to these cars. I have read that Plymouths were not altered in the rear but the front wheels were moved forward 3 inches. What I need info on is the body, doors, interior, and windows?

1. Did They use fiberglass front ends or acid dipped steel front ends?

2. The 2% cars can be seen using sedan doors, how did the factory make the post that goes from the front of the quarter to the roof? What did they use?

3. Did they use a fiberglass Dash like they did in the 10/15 cars

4.did they use factory glass or lightweight glass for the front, rear, and quarter glass, if so what type of lightweight glass did they use?

I understand that the 2% AFX cars are a very under-researched topic but I'm really intrigued by them. If anyone has information or knows anyone that might, please let me know.

As a note to the original post from 318 poly, quite frankly, the '65 2% FX info is even murkier than the '64's. There's a lot of confusion between the SS, FX and AFX ranks as to what was being used, shared, donated and anticipated.
Either the cars had the thin gauge sheet metal installed from the donor A990's at that point, or they received the very first Fiberglass front ends and doors without the radical 12% 10/15 wheel well opening modifications. If you ask me, I tend to think that the sheet metal was used because the fiberglass was already being outlawed along with the aluminum in order to compete in a certain class.

 

[Big bill]

I thought the doors , hood and fenders were fiberglass. It seems to me the doors are the same ones as the awb factory built cars but I don’t know that for a fact .

 

[Jeff Peterson]

I’m sure they had standard wheelbase, glass fenders, there’s a picture of the Ramchargers car at Pomona, from the passenger side showing duct tape on back, lower part, trying to get things lined up.
Also somewhere, I have a Plaza fiberglass ad showing either stock or 10” adjusted wheel openings.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I thought the doors , hood and fenders were fiberglass. It seems to me the doors are the same ones as the awb factory built cars but I don’t know that for a fact .

It's confusing to say the least. Let's just start here for the 1965 cars. I told y'all this particular year would be murky.

In a nutshell and as far as the body panels only, all the 1965 SS A990 sedan cars came through with thin gauge (stamped or chemically milled.......choose your poison argument) fenders, hoods, scoops, doors and front bumpers.

The 1965 AFX 12% or 10"/15" radically altered hardtop cars that Chrysler had infamously constructed and the one sedan constructed for Bill Flynn by Dick Branstner's shop all had Plaza fiberglass fenders, hoods, scoops, doors (with aluminum upper door glass channels taken from the '64 SS A864 Hemi factory cars) deck lids, dash boards and front bumpers.

The 1965 FX 2% cars of just only four that were constructed came through with either thin gauge fenders, hoods, scoops, doors and front bumpers swiped from A990 donor cars or....... were blessed with sets of plaza fiberglass fenders, hoods, scoops, doors and front fenders. For some reason I can't remember what I was told by reliable sources as to which was which, but I suspect thin gauge sheet metal was afoot. I also heard that perhaps a leftover aluminum dashboard frame from the 1964 2% program had somehow illegally found itself in one of the 1965 2% cars. I'll have to call again and find out.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

It's confusing to say the least. Let's just start here for the 1965 cars. I told y'all this particular year would be murky.

In a nutshell and as far as the body panels only, all the 1965 SS A990 sedan cars came through with thin gauge (stamped or chemically milled.......choose your poison argument) fenders, hoods, scoops, doors and front bumpers.

The 1965 AFX 12% or 10"/15" radically altered hardtop cars that Chrysler had infamously constructed and the one sedan constructed for Bill Flynn by Dick Branstner's shop all had Plaza fiberglass fenders, hoods, scoops, doors (with aluminum upper door glass channels taken from the '64 SS A864 Hemi factory cars) deck lids, dash boards and front bumpers.

The 1965 FX 2% cars of just only four that were constructed came through with either thin gauge fenders, hoods, scoops, doors and front bumpers swiped from A990 donor cars or....... were blessed with sets of plaza fiberglass fenders, hoods, scoops, doors and front fenders. For some reason I can't remember what I was told by reliable sources as to which was which, but I suspect thin gauge sheet metal was afoot. I also heard that perhaps a leftover aluminum dashboard frame from the 1964 2% program had somehow illegally found itself in one of the 1965 2% cars. I'll have to call again and find out.

Here's a copy of the letter from H.D.Reeker at Chrysler engineering to NHRA announcing the '64 2% FX program. All the parts on this list are in addition to all the aluminum front end parts on the factory Hemi cars of the same year. It may be that some parts, not all on this list, made production and installation in the midnight hour. Years back while at the Nats, I actually saw for sale, one of the aluminum instrument panels as they were itemized in this list.

The '65 2% FX parts memo is still a mystery and much more elusive in light of the radical '65 AFX program superseding it.

 

[rmchrgr]

Did the AWB cars get the same aluminum parts treatments? I know they had fiberglass dashes but am not sure about things like the column jacket or brake pedal.

Seems nuts they went through that exercise for four cars for one race.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Did the AWB cars get the same aluminum parts treatments? I know they had fiberglass dashes but am not sure about things like the column jacket or brake pedal.

Seems nuts they went through that exercise for four cars for one race.

As far as body panels, the '65 hardtop AFX altered wheel based cars supposedly used only the aluminum door hinges from their hacked '65 SS A990 counterparts and aluminum door glass frames hacked from the '64 A864 factory Hemi cars. The aluminum door glass frames were needed to transform the fiberglass hardtop doors into a post door in order to accommodate a Plexiglass pane fixed in place.
All the aluminum special parts allegedly made for the '64 2% cars were not bled over to the '65' AFXs because they were trying to get the cars approved for competition early on and then were subsequently shown the exit door.
The '64 parts are questionable because I've heard that the infamous Reeker letter to NHRA did not necessarily reflect what was actually stamped out for that very limited production. Though I saw an aluminum instrument panel (one of the Reeker parts) and was told of the existence of others by a noted Chrysler engineer, I have not seen any others from that parts list. The factories were desperate back then to make a mark in history so who knows what really went on with limited time and budgets. I only wish I could have been running the stamps and dies back then.

 

[gooser]

cars magazine march 65 had a 5 page story coronet for the quarter in that story they list all fiberglass parts with chrysler part numbers front fenders both standard and altered hood with scoop front bumper left and right door decklid also the prices

 

[fullmetaljacket]

cars magazine march 65 had a 5 page story coronet for the quarter in that story they list all fiberglass parts with chrysler part numbers front fenders both standard and altered hood with scoop front bumper left and right door decklid also the prices

Goose you got me loose, so I broke out my literary collection on the subject.

 

[gooser]

you got it brother