1965 Plymouth Satellite - Will not stay running

[Maxrat]

The vacuum advance hose looks too big or misshapen at carburetor nipple. You have it plugged at the end with a (I believe) golf tee. The end of the hose at the carburetor (since it might be too big) might be sucking a lot of air. Note: get a new vacuum hose, reconnect at carburetor and vacuum advance on the distributor. Also, check the PCV valve hose to make sure it's not cracked / loose.

 

[miller]

Your getting some great suggestions, on what to look at.

Maybe a couple more. I could not get the videos to work...but, no matter.

1) Look at the PVC valve itself, that's on one of the valve covers. Is it all metal? If it is, pull it, and look for a carbon build-up. If it isn't metal, might just try replacing it. All metal PVC valves usually don't need to be replaced. Just cleaned. Shake it, listening for the valve inside. They can get built up with carbon. Use spray carb cleaner on it, until you can feel/hear the valve freely moving. Yep, fresh PVC hose might help, too.

2) New ballast resistor? I've had 'new ones' last two shakes, then go bad! Sign of a bad ballast resistor, engine will fire off with ignition in start position, cut off in run.

3) New distributor? Look at the points. Are both breaker contacts clean? Has the points gap been checked? Then, there's the condenser...these days, they can easily go bad.

4) New carb? Float adjusted right?

 

[Johnmj6363]

Check here also.....don't ask how I know

View attachment 795767 View attachment 795768 View attachment 795769

Forgive me for being naive but what am I looking at?

 

[Johnmj6363]

Maybe leaking gas is sucking in air and leaning it out until it stalls?

I agree with Steve009. Massive vacuum leak. Have you checked the tightness of the carburetor bolts? Have you checked the carburetor gasket? Are there any vacuum hoses that are cracked / disconnected? Are there any vacuum nipples not plugged? Runs briefly -- means it has spark.

The vacuum advance hose looks too big or misshapen at carburetor nipple. You have it plugged at the end with a (I believe) golf tee. The end of the hose at the carburetor (since it might be too big) might be sucking a lot of air. Note: get a new vacuum hose, reconnect at carburetor and vacuum advance on the distributor. Also, check the PCV valve hose to make sure it's not cracked / loose.

Your getting some great suggestions, on what to look at.

Maybe a couple more. I could not get the videos to work...but, no matter.

1) Look at the PVC valve itself, that's on one of the valve covers. Is it all metal? If it is, pull it, and look for a carbon build-up. If it isn't metal, might just try replacing it. All metal PVC valves usually don't need to be replaced. Just cleaned. Shake it, listening for the valve inside. They can get built up with carbon. Use spray carb cleaner on it, until you can feel/hear the valve freely moving. Yep, fresh PVC hose might help, too.

2) New ballast resistor? I've had 'new ones' last two shakes, then go bad! Sign of a bad ballast resistor, engine will fire off with ignition in start position, cut off in run.

3) New distributor? Look at the points. Are both breaker contacts clean? Has the points gap been checked? Then, there's the condenser...these days, they can easily go bad.

4) New carb? Float adjusted right?

All great ideas, I'll be spending the morning looking for vacuum leaks. I'll check the mating point between the carb and intake, as well as all hoses. I do have a golf tee in the vacuum advance going to the distributor, I read on here that's the correct thing to do during diagnostics. How would I go about cheeking the float to make sure it's adjusted correctly?

I believe I've ruled the ballast resistor out. I have almost 0 ohms across it, 12V going in, and 7V coming out. Am I missing something?

Would something like a clogged PCV valve really cause the engine not to run?

While I was laying away last night unable to sleep because of this beast, I began to think about how a choke works on these carbs. It is my understanding a spring under the intake heats up and causes the choke to move once the engine is warm. If that spring broke, it could cause the engine not to start as it would throw the choke wide open and make it run extremely lean. This could have caused the no start issue to begin with and still be causing the no start. I'm going to pull the plate and check the spring for fun today. Does anyone know, when the engine is cold, should the choke be all the way closed or all the way open (again, forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject)

 

[miller]

Forgive me for being naive but what am I looking at?

Methinks...that's the inside, of a distributor cap.

Would something like a clogged PCV valve really cause the engine not to run?

It could, if bad enough, to make one run rough.

How would I go about cheeking the float to make sure it's adjusted correctly?

Un-fortunately, the top has to be separated, to expose the float. You would need the actual up/down settings measurements...for that type carb. Probably can find it online. Go easy, if you decide to, and if careful enough, the gasket will stay in one piece, and can be re-used.
It adjusts when the carb needle valve opens, and closes, with the correct amount of gas in the carb bowl. Fairly critical on carbs. Not saying that's it...but, again, these days the builders can't even get that right.

If you can get your hands on a vacuum gauge, via a hose, plug it into the manifold (intake) vacuum port, at the base of the carb. See what it reads/does. There's vacuum charts you can look up, that can give you clues on what's good, or bad.

Again, if your getting weak spark at the plugs...something ignition wise.

 

[Maxrat]

Does anyone know, when the engine is cold, should the choke be all the way closed or all the way open (again, forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject)[/QUOTE]

When the engine is cold, the butterfly plate (choke) should be closed. As the engine warms and heats up the bi-metal choke thermostat (on the intake manifold), you should see the butterfly plate in the carburetor start to open (that's if it runs long enough). Note, you could open the choke and tie it off (if it's closed) just to see if it runs with it wide open.

 

[Maxrat]

I do have a golf tee in the vacuum advance going to the distributor, I read on here that's the correct thing to do during diagnostics.

There's two reasons I know of to plug the vacuum advance vacuum hose. 1. You want to set the idle timing without the distributor advancing. 2. Your checking to see if the diaphragm in the vacuum advance on the distributor is leaking / sucking air.

 

[miller]

When the engine is cold, the butterfly plate (choke) should be closed.

Just to add, what Maxrat is saying. Linkage on carbs vary.
Some, you have to 'set the choke', by pushing on the throttle once. If the engine is cold enough, the bi-metal spring kicks in, and closes the choke plate.
It's also all adjustable. Find a copy of that carb re-built kit instructions, and all the adjustments will be there.

But...I'll say it again...weak spark...ignition.

 

[Johnmj6363]

Just to add, what Maxrat is saying. Linkage on carbs vary.
Some, you have to 'set the choke', by pushing on the throttle once. If the engine is cold enough, the bi-metal spring kicks in, and closes the choke plate.
It's also all adjustable. Find a copy of that carb re-built kit instructions, and all the adjustments will be there.

But...I'll say it again...weak spark...ignition.

I keep going back to weak spark, but I feel like I've checked everything. The only thing left to check is the the condenser but I'm pretty sure it would produce a spark at all if I had a bad condenser.

 

[Johnmj6363]

Things I've checked this morning:

Vacuum leaks - none to be found
Cleaned PCV valve and hose, the weren't in terrible shape to start
Tightened carb mounting bolts, again not too loose to start with
Removed choke spring, intact and appears to be working

Once thing I did notice is that the nipple coming off the back of the carb, the one you attach a hose to and then to the distributor, came off when I removed the hose. Like the whole nipple came out. I put it in a vice, pulled the hose off, and reinstalled it in the carb. Not sure if a bad seal here would let enough air through to not run at all.

I'm considering purchasing a vacuum gauge as we recommended above and seeing what kind of reading I'm getting. Do you all think this would be a worth wild investment towards diagnosing this thing?

I've heard mixed messages about installing a jumper wire where the ballast resistor goes to rule it out of the system. If I jump it and supply 12V to the coil instead of 7V, am I going to plow the new coil / other parts?

I've attached a picture of the identification plate on the carb in case it helps anyone.

https://www.carbkitsource.com/tech/Stromberg/StrombergWW.html

-John

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Forgive me for being naive but what am I looking at?

My car died on the way to a club meeting and I was able to roll into a parking lot.Cranked and cranked,,,,,ran for a few seconds and died.Checked all the normal things but I'm ABnormal.Pulled the coil wire off the distributor and checked for spark and that was good.Pulled a plug wire and checked and the spark was so weak I could hardly see it.Cap looked good,made sure the the springy tab was touching the cap and nothing.
Called my daughter to give me a ride back to my garage to get my rollback. When I finally pulled the rotor off you see what I found,the spark was going through the cap to the distributor shaft

 

[Maxrat]

Things I've checked this morning:

Vacuum leaks - none to be found
Cleaned PCV valve and hose, the weren't in terrible shape to start
Tightened carb mounting bolts, again not too loose to start with
Removed choke spring, intact and appears to be working

Once thing I did notice is that the nipple coming off the back of the carb, the one you attach a hose to and then to the distributor, came off when I removed the hose. Like the whole nipple came out. I put it in a vice, pulled the hose off, and reinstalled it in the carb. Not sure if a bad seal here would let enough air through to not run at all.

I'm considering purchasing a vacuum gauge as we recommended above and seeing what kind of reading I'm getting. Do you all think this would be a worth wild investment towards diagnosing this thing?

I've heard mixed messages about installing a jumper wire where the ballast resistor goes to rule it out of the system. If I jump it and supply 12V to the coil instead of 7V, am I going to plow the new coil / other parts?

I've attached a picture of the identification plate on the carb in case it helps anyone.

View attachment 795994
https://www.carbkitsource.com/tech/Stromberg/StrombergWW.html

-John

Note: the vacuum nipple on the back of the carburetor should not come off. It should be permanently affixed to the carburetor.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Note: the vacuum nipple on the back of the carburetor should not come off. It should be permanently affixed to the carburetor.

Thought the tubes were just kinda pressed in

 

[Maxrat]

Thought the tubes were just kinda pressed in

Yes, they are pressed in -- however, they should not come out when just trying to remove the vacuum hose. It should take a lot of effort to remove them.

 

[Don Frelier]

The spark should be blue/white yellow and crisp, not orange and lazy even with points.
I didn't see any response to the choke plate question.
It should be fully closed with perhaps an 1/8" gap when shut between the blade and the throat of the carb.
When it starts it needs to open a bit to say 1/4" to 3/8" open. Then gradually open until the intake is warm.
Were the plugs dry when removed?
You may want to do a quick check on the idle mixture screw settings should be between 1 -1/2 to 2-1/2 turns from fully closed.
See if they are roughly the same maybe back out a 1/2 turn on each.
Another thing you can try, but be careful with this: take a small container of gas try a couple ounces.
Pour in a tablespoon or two and start it.
Then when it starts to quit sprinkle a bit more in if it wakes up you are too lean.
Perhaps fuel is getting blocked at the needle and seat at the carb inlet or float is stuck in a high position.

 

[Johnmj6363]

My car died on the way to a club meeting and I was able to roll into a parking lot.Cranked and cranked,,,,,ran for a few seconds and died.Checked all the normal things but I'm ABnormal.Pulled the coil wire off the distributor and checked for spark and that was good.Pulled a plug wire and checked and the spark was so weak I could hardly see it.Cap looked good,made sure the the springy tab was touching the cap and nothing.
Called my daughter to give me a ride back to my garage to get my rollback. When I finally pulled the rotor off you see what I found,the spark was going through the cap to the distributor shaft

This sounds like what mine's doing, but I posted a pic of the cap and it looks great. No burn marks at all.

 

[Johnmj6363]

Yes, they are pressed in -- however, they should not come out when just trying to remove the vacuum hose. It should take a lot of effort to remove them.

Sooooo, should I be worried? I'm thinking this is an issue, but not enough of one to stop it from running. Is that true?

 

[Johnmj6363]

The spark should be blue/white yellow and crisp, not orange and lazy even with points.
I didn't see any response to the choke plate question.
It should be fully closed with perhaps an 1/8" gap when shut between the blade and the throat of the carb.
When it starts it needs to open a bit to say 1/4" to 3/8" open. Then gradually open until the intake is warm.
Were the plugs dry when removed?
You may want to do a quick check on the idle mixture screw settings should be between 1 -1/2 to 2-1/2 turns from fully closed.
See if they are roughly the same maybe back out a 1/2 turn on each.
Another thing you can try, but be careful with this: take a small container of gas try a couple ounces.
Pour in a tablespoon or two and start it.
Then when it starts to quit sprinkle a bit more in if it wakes up you are too lean.
Perhaps fuel is getting blocked at the needle and seat at the carb inlet or float is stuck in a high position.

The few times I've gotten the vehicle to idle (for all of 10-12 seconds) the choke plate was all the way open and I added an external fuel source on top of priming the pedal a few times. I tried getting the vehicle to run this morning with the choke closed all the way (plate was open MAYBE 1/8th of an inch) and I got nothing.

I'm interested in adjusting the idle screws to see if I can get it to run. I'm a little scared to start fooling with adjustment screws, but I guess if I write down exactly what I do I can always undo it.

 

[Johnmj6363]

If I could get a video of what the spark looks like would it help?

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

This sounds like what mine's doing, but I posted a pic of the cap and it looks great. No burn marks at all.

That is the UNDERside of the cap!